Contract negotiations
12-14-2022, 10:35 AM
#921
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 69
Delta CEO on CNBC today saying profits will be up 100% next year, their only limiting factor being pilots over the next 5 years. If Delta is worried about pilots limiting profits, maybe Maury should be a tad worried too? Is the Allegiant BOD just on autopilot and willing to make losses while everyone else makes profits? The ability for Allegiant to grow and prosper has a direct correlation to how good the next contract is, period.
12-14-2022, 12:28 PM
#922
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,170
Actually, it was true until last year (The hated 2/3 rule), but O’Brien-Zuckerman (who Andrew and the boys campaigned against vocally) got it removed. So no, they can't actually do that any more.
12-14-2022, 04:29 PM
#923
Voice of Reason
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Uncomfortable
Posts: 481
Do you have a reference for that? I haven't heard any of our union guys actually say that. It would be great if that's true.
12-15-2022, 05:46 AM
#924
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,170
How could AR not know that? I guess he really does live in a bubble. Not a good look.
12-15-2022, 07:32 AM
#925
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 207
https://www.tdu.org/two_thirds_rule_is_over
How could AR not know that? I guess he really does live in a bubble. Not a good look.
How could AR not know that? I guess he really does live in a bubble. Not a good look.
12-15-2022, 08:26 AM
#926
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,170
Hard to believe less than half the UPS drivers didn't vote too. They're pretty hardcore. But nevertheless...
12-15-2022, 11:40 AM
#927
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Position: Airbus Captain
Posts: 69
Where's the BAFO! Isn't this about the time we should be expecting MG to slide over the company's best & final offer (Alaska +)? That is my plan A. My plan B is a merger with ___________. (fill in the blank(s). My plan C kicks in start of 2023...better get those apps up to date : /
12-15-2022, 04:49 PM
#928
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: jets
Posts: 220
says a lot
12-15-2022, 05:06 PM
#929
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 69
Where's the BAFO! Isn't this about the time we should be expecting MG to slide over the company's best & final offer (Alaska +)? That is my plan A. My plan B is a merger with ___________. (fill in the blank(s). My plan C kicks in start of 2023...better get those apps up to date : /
Delta ~ 6 months
United / American ~ 3 months
Southwest ~ 3 months
Not sure about JetBlue
Each month could be up to 400 seniority numbers lost forever.
From application submission until interview invite < 2 weeks. Especially ones that had been reviewed professionally etc.
12-15-2022, 06:06 PM
#930
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2022
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 53
Rumor on the street is that the company didn't show up one of the days and didn't have anything for the union on the second day.
Just curious about what you think ALPA would do differently. If the company says we are worth JB's four-year-old contract with essentially current work rules, what is ALPA going to do? No union can make the company agree to a deal. That's not how it works. Also, ALPA bought off on Spirit's crappy deal and United's/Alaska's as well. No thanks to any of those.
I have never called you any name. I thought we were having a logical back-and-forth discourse about an issue that neither of us is an expert on. Maybe I was wrong.
Just curious about what you think ALPA would do differently. If the company says we are worth JB's four-year-old contract with essentially current work rules, what is ALPA going to do? No union can make the company agree to a deal. That's not how it works. Also, ALPA bought off on Spirit's crappy deal and United's/Alaska's as well. No thanks to any of those.
I have never called you any name. I thought we were having a logical back-and-forth discourse about an issue that neither of us is an expert on. Maybe I was wrong.
See below for why i responded the way i did. I wasn't the one that started talking about unstacking and PBS. I was asking questions about AR's video. I only brought it up here and else where after AR went on about it in his video.
My original concern was that unstacking/stacking was going to be the last thing left and it was going to turn into a d*ck measuring contest between AR and MG and we the pilots would lose. I hope i am wrong. that would be terrible for the pilot group. But AR's video and what i'm hearing is that unstack is still hard impasse. If that is true then then we will be the losers. We will never be released if we demand something nobody in the industry has and alternatively if AR digs in his heels then we'll be stuck watching videos til 2026 at least.
Even the union has said that the company keeps upping their retirement/rates each time they send section 3 and 4. Per union whispers, MG is offering DC for retirement (15%), the rates started with Suncountry plus, but are now closer to Alaska with a ULCC discount. That is not going to get it done, but that's a lot of movement from MG in less than 6 months because the market is going to determine the rates. No ULCC discount. Per union whispers MG has stopped telling the union that allegiant gets a discount because we are a ULCC. my crystal ball (and some of this optimistic thinking) is that at some point MG will be forced to pay us, the market is gonna force him to and MG is gonna realize that is the only way this thing gets voted in.
The work rules will have to be standardized with the industry. no more moving raps all over the place and jerking reserves down in FL. even though a lot of reserves have a good gig, the reserves in FL get screwed way way way too often and that has to be fixed. we also need the ability for a pilot to sit long call, so stupid that scheduling doesn't use that today. we should demand that at least some reserves are long call, that could make life a whole lot better for reserves in FL and other big bases (IWA/LAS).
A lot of the other work rules for line holders aren't that different from other carriers on paper. crew services just ignores the work rules that we have, but those work rules are industry standard (extensions, reassignments, open time, trip trades, etc. are all pretty standard crew services just ignores them - not sure we need "better" work rules we just need a lot of our current work rules to be followed).
Just my two cents...
My original concern was that unstacking/stacking was going to be the last thing left and it was going to turn into a d*ck measuring contest between AR and MG and we the pilots would lose. I hope i am wrong. that would be terrible for the pilot group. But AR's video and what i'm hearing is that unstack is still hard impasse. If that is true then then we will be the losers. We will never be released if we demand something nobody in the industry has and alternatively if AR digs in his heels then we'll be stuck watching videos til 2026 at least.
Even the union has said that the company keeps upping their retirement/rates each time they send section 3 and 4. Per union whispers, MG is offering DC for retirement (15%), the rates started with Suncountry plus, but are now closer to Alaska with a ULCC discount. That is not going to get it done, but that's a lot of movement from MG in less than 6 months because the market is going to determine the rates. No ULCC discount. Per union whispers MG has stopped telling the union that allegiant gets a discount because we are a ULCC. my crystal ball (and some of this optimistic thinking) is that at some point MG will be forced to pay us, the market is gonna force him to and MG is gonna realize that is the only way this thing gets voted in.
The work rules will have to be standardized with the industry. no more moving raps all over the place and jerking reserves down in FL. even though a lot of reserves have a good gig, the reserves in FL get screwed way way way too often and that has to be fixed. we also need the ability for a pilot to sit long call, so stupid that scheduling doesn't use that today. we should demand that at least some reserves are long call, that could make life a whole lot better for reserves in FL and other big bases (IWA/LAS).
A lot of the other work rules for line holders aren't that different from other carriers on paper. crew services just ignores the work rules that we have, but those work rules are industry standard (extensions, reassignments, open time, trip trades, etc. are all pretty standard crew services just ignores them - not sure we need "better" work rules we just need a lot of our current work rules to be followed).
Just my two cents...
I'm not sure if that is good or bad? it looks like the blind leading blind. I have no idea who's done what on management side except for googling linkedin profiles.
who on our team have been in negotiations before? isn't it just Hegland - and he's the one that negotiated our current contract so that's not very comforting. AR, Kenny, Valenzuela, Jay and Josh haven't - i don't believe - ever been in negotiations before. Maybe i'm wrong. i know our culinary attorney has negotiated contracts just nothing RLA related.
We've got the freshman starting on the varsity squad because nobody else showed up to play. Our exco is so in over their heads it isn't even funny. I HOPE they read this and prove me wrong, I'll be the first to buy them a beer. At the end of the day, if my doctor, tax-preparer, portfolio manager do a sh*t job, I light a fire or fire them. It should be no different than with our ELECTED exco. Our culinary attorney is another prime example of why IBT is trash, do we really think any ALPA group is being represented at the table by anybody who doesn't talk aviation contract in their sleep?
https://www.atlasairworldwide.com/20...bor-relations/
DM was a consultant for F&H and then left to be SVP at Atlas. no idea if he quit first and then went to Atlas or what. maybe you know what he was thinking when he left allegiant high and dry.
This is something we can 100% agree on.
who on our team have been in negotiations before? isn't it just Hegland - and he's the one that negotiated our current contract so that's not very comforting. AR, Kenny, Valenzuela, Jay and Josh haven't - i don't believe - ever been in negotiations before. Maybe i'm wrong. i know our culinary attorney has negotiated contracts just nothing RLA related.
We've got the freshman starting on the varsity squad because nobody else showed up to play. Our exco is so in over their heads it isn't even funny. I HOPE they read this and prove me wrong, I'll be the first to buy them a beer. At the end of the day, if my doctor, tax-preparer, portfolio manager do a sh*t job, I light a fire or fire them. It should be no different than with our ELECTED exco. Our culinary attorney is another prime example of why IBT is trash, do we really think any ALPA group is being represented at the table by anybody who doesn't talk aviation contract in their sleep?
https://www.atlasairworldwide.com/20...bor-relations/
DM was a consultant for F&H and then left to be SVP at Atlas. no idea if he quit first and then went to Atlas or what. maybe you know what he was thinking when he left allegiant high and dry.
This is something we can 100% agree on.
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