Contract negotiations
12-11-2022, 12:43 AM
#891
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 948
Legacy pilots are not going to be familiar with terms like “stacking” or “unstacking” because from many decades of experience it’s just assumed schedules are built properly according to seniority & that’s that. Ask a United pilot what do they do when a senior pilot is assigned a reserve line while junior pilots are getting all the trips he bid - common occurrence at Allegiant - he’ll look at you like you’re from mars.
Last edited by tailendcharlie; 12-11-2022 at 01:00 AM.
12-11-2022, 03:33 AM
#892
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 766
Legacy pilots are not going to be familiar with terms like “stacking” or “unstacking” because from many decades of experience it’s just assumed schedules are built properly according to seniority & that’s that. Ask a United pilot what do they do when a senior pilot is assigned a reserve line while junior pilots are getting all the trips he bid - common occurrence at Allegiant - he’ll look at you like you’re from mars.
12-11-2022, 04:04 AM
#893
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 948
Short answer - no. The 1980’s high school computer lab excel spreadsheet “bidding program” they built does not work properly. So when people keep writing about why is AR making such a big deal about it all? CBI is why & I don’t blame him for being willing to burn the house down over this one issue. The company brought this upon themselves.
12-11-2022, 06:32 AM
#894
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,170
Legacy pilots are not going to be familiar with terms like “stacking” or “unstacking” because from many decades of experience it’s just assumed schedules are built properly according to seniority & that’s that. Ask a United pilot what do they do when a senior pilot is assigned a reserve line while junior pilots are getting all the trips he bid - common occurrence at Allegiant - he’ll look at you like you’re from mars.
At G4, Andrew asks, company says no, Andrew issues another Strongly Worded Email/Video™️
12-11-2022, 04:22 PM
#896
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,013
12-12-2022, 07:46 PM
#898
Voice of Reason
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Uncomfortable
Posts: 481
Yes, must-work days would go away with a real PBS. I'm not sure why Nate is caught up on this stacking issue, I guess there's nothing else to complain about. It's not like the company has offered us industry-standard everything (or basically anything). If stacking/unstacking was all that was left, it might be a different story. However, we're still a Grand Canyon apart and there are a dozen things the pilots DO want that the company is refusing to give, so stacking right now is a moot point.
Nate, if you are so concerned why don't you tell everyone here how delta does it? You seem to be an expert. Please enlighten us. I would much rather AR spend his time trying to get my LTD and min day than worrying about your stacking question.
Also, our current CBA doesn't allow unstacking, I'm curious as to why you would want to give that up to the company in this environment.
Nate, if you are so concerned why don't you tell everyone here how delta does it? You seem to be an expert. Please enlighten us. I would much rather AR spend his time trying to get my LTD and min day than worrying about your stacking question.
Also, our current CBA doesn't allow unstacking, I'm curious as to why you would want to give that up to the company in this environment.
12-13-2022, 10:21 AM
#899
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
Yes, must-work days would go away with a real PBS. I'm not sure why Nate is caught up on this stacking issue, I guess there's nothing else to complain about. It's not like the company has offered us industry-standard everything (or basically anything). If stacking/unstacking was all that was left, it might be a different story. However, we're still a Grand Canyon apart and there are a dozen things the pilots DO want that the company is refusing to give, so stacking right now is a moot point.
Nate, if you are so concerned why don't you tell everyone here how delta does it? You seem to be an expert. Please enlighten us. I would much rather AR spend his time trying to get my LTD and min day than worrying about your stacking question.
Also, our current CBA doesn't allow unstacking, I'm curious as to why you would want to give that up to the company in this environment.
Nate, if you are so concerned why don't you tell everyone here how delta does it? You seem to be an expert. Please enlighten us. I would much rather AR spend his time trying to get my LTD and min day than worrying about your stacking question.
Also, our current CBA doesn't allow unstacking, I'm curious as to why you would want to give that up to the company in this environment.
But whatever, its all my fault AR decided to spend half the time on his video talking about pbs and unstack - i must be super good at manipulating, right? Think of how ridiculous that sounds...
The pay/retirement will absolutely be there. MG knows that is the only way this place grows. the bigger question is whether we get any work rules?
I honestly don't what to believe with the work rules rumors i'm hearing. union sources say that they are only looking for industry standard work rules but then AR has talked about zero percent unstack for the last three years... so is the union looking for industry standard and management is being obtuse (most likely) or is AR digging in his heels on unstack which no airline in the industry has (unlikely imo - can't imagine he would be that naďve)?
from what i'm hearing, management's early offers in January/February were pathetic and laughably out of touch. since Alaska's TA, management has upped the rates/retirement from where they were but it is still less than alaska's. So i believe management will read the room and come to their senses with some realistic rates/retirement but the difference between management and union on work rules might as well be the pacific ocean.
side note: delta's unstack protects top 30% and that is highest in the industry that i've seen.
I honestly don't what to believe with the work rules rumors i'm hearing. union sources say that they are only looking for industry standard work rules but then AR has talked about zero percent unstack for the last three years... so is the union looking for industry standard and management is being obtuse (most likely) or is AR digging in his heels on unstack which no airline in the industry has (unlikely imo - can't imagine he would be that naďve)?
from what i'm hearing, management's early offers in January/February were pathetic and laughably out of touch. since Alaska's TA, management has upped the rates/retirement from where they were but it is still less than alaska's. So i believe management will read the room and come to their senses with some realistic rates/retirement but the difference between management and union on work rules might as well be the pacific ocean.
side note: delta's unstack protects top 30% and that is highest in the industry that i've seen.
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