captnate702

I actually think MG will throw money on the table. At some point the industry is gonna dictate what pay is. Spirit’s rates this afternoon will also be telling. MG won’t put DAL on the table, but he’ll eventually be at Alaska because he knows that’s the only thing that is gonna get voted in by this pilot group. If he doesn’t then this place is shrink…and not shrink to profitability, just shrink and whither away.

What he won’t do is a zero unstack that no one in the industry has. If turning unstack off means all your bids are disregarded then how does additional pilots fix that? AR’s video was not convincing.

And the talk of staffing models, I’m still calling bs. If staffing models/unstack are so important then why is it no where to be found in any contract comparison from AR or any of the ALPA stuff for Alaska, Spirit, etc.?

Something is not adding up and my bs radar is going off after AR’s video trying to explain away his position on zero unstackz

trvsmrtn

A rail strike would have impacted the entire country. An Allegiant strike would inconvenience a few vacationers. Slight difference.

akulahunter

I answered all of this in the other thread. If you still have questions PM me.

I agree. (Doesn't mean we would get released, but the Rail strike, at a time when shipping is delayed by weeks, would have had a significant impact on interstate commerce. Apples and oranges.)

captnate702

Your answer was the same talking points that I’ve gotten from AR’s videos and recently from a steward. The more union reps and AR try to explain the less convincing it becomes. Alaska just went to PBS and yet no staffing model and no limit on unstack - and they’re using Navblue. Spirit recently went to Navblue: no staffing model.

Something is not adding up and when that happens by BS radar goes off.

We don’t need the most pilot friendly scheduling system in the entire world (zero unstack) - that’s not what any pilot I’ve spoken to is expecting from the contract. We just don’t want a garbage home grown spreadsheet.

Again, haven’t heard a single explanation as to why the above paragraph makes any sense.

captnate702

Agreed. But I still don’t think NMB is gonna be releasing anybody any time soon. NMB released the rail workers after less than a year of mediation and it almost resulted devastation to the entire economy.

I don’t think the NMB is gonna error on the side of releasing earlier than later. I think airlines will see that the NMB will be slower to release after what happened with the railroads.

SladeTin

Completely agree there’s a big difference. Wasn’t really trying to say they are the same. But my opinion still stands. There’s no chance anyone is getting released for a strike.

At the end of the day it’s a moot point anyway. If we’re at the point that the NMB has released us for a strike, the company won’t still be around by then. That would be years from now.

akulahunter

I definitely don't know the intricacies of every other airline's PBS (you do?) and I don't have any talking points. At this point, you sound like you are being obstinant just to be a contrarian. However, I did look at the two places you listed (NK & Alaska).

There wasn't any actual information in Spirit's contract dealing with the PBS and their PBS LOA was still in the gather information phase (i.e. still in the RFP phase). I'm assuming they worked the details out later. If you have access to that stuff, let me know. I'd gladly look it over to educate myself. Their contract does discuss staffing, but like the other ULCCs lacks a lot of detail. It lists generalities not a specific formula like United. In general Spirit staffs for Known Flying + Reserve Coverage + Sick Leave + Union Leave + Training + Vacation (floating/annual) + Special Projects. So they have a model, just not as specific as United. Again, nothing I saw specifically discussed any level of unstacking. If you have something that says 100% unstacking, I'm interested.

As far as Alaska goes, it looks like they handle the manning issue (for PBS) utilizing an average line value and cap. All I have access to is their Executive Summary, maybe there is more information in the actual TA language. Their Executive Summary does list Stack Heights, but no language or clarification as to what those are (and may not even be the same thing). Pre-TA, their staffing looked much like Spirit's except Alaska specified 10% reserve coverage. (i.e. Projected Hours + Vacation + Sick + LOAs + Training/Instructors + etc)

I am curious since you are so "skeptical." How would you handle schedules and being screwed by the company without 0% unstacking or a staffing model? Our company consistently understaffs. If they have access to 100% unstacking they will continue to do so to the extreme. They will 100% use that as a reason to lower manning from what we have now (for the equivalent amount of flying).

You "question" a lot and your BS radar is going off, but you don't actually offer a solution to the issue. I'd also like to see the full language of Spirit & Alaska's PBS and staffing that you referenced in your response. I try to be as educated as I can, please share.

rdneckpilot

no doubt…

filler

Margaritaville

G4 pilots currently have zero unstacking in the contract! Have you ever actually read it? Just because the company stole it through the grievance process does not negate the intent. It's 15.C and 15.I in case you can be bothered to read it.

The rest of what you said I won't even address because you've been wrong about everything you've ever said on here and your recent crusade in favor of unstacking is an obvious concession given to you to sell by your management buddies. Just more musings from beneath Maury's desk.

captnate702

Yawn… my sources have been right each time. Go ahead and die on the zero unstack hill with AR. I haven’t heard a single line pilot ever talk about unstacking. We have the leverage to get an incredible contract, but wasting that leverage on something like zero unstack which nobody in the industry has is naive and my BS radar is still going off.

Also Delta has 30% unstack and they use Navblue so something is missing in AR’s explanation about Navblue pbs. Go ahead and sip the kool aid Margi.