Originally Posted by akulahunter

You're right, there is a lot to unpack here. I have spoken to several of the union guys, including guys in the room. Your statement that MG is offering a rate that is "not far off from industry leading" is by all accounts not even close to accurate. I don't know who your source is, but you need a new one. Also, everything that you listed as a work rule that we need (i.e. "give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off and SCOPE") with the exception of add days has not been offered either. Or if they were offered (DC) they were not industry standard.

I'm not the guy who labels others as "management shill," "Koolaid drinker," "union stooge," etc. However, as a first post goes, this screams "moderate your expectations!" The people I have spoken to have been very clear that the company has not offered a rate that even competes with Alaska, much less something that would challenge Delta. (Of course, you could consider beating start-up non-union shops and five-year-old ULCC rates as industry-leading, I don't want to speak for you.) On top of that, the company (MG in one of his videos I believe, but definitely to new hire classes) has said that LTD would bankrupt the company. Really?!? It hasn't bankrupted any of the other airlines, all of which have LTD. (FYI, just so you know where I stand, No LTD to 65 = an automatic "NO" on my part)

According to AR's last update, the company pass of 12, 14, and 16 were regressive to our current crappy contract. How the hell can that even be possible? Worse Hours of Service and Reserve Rules? WTF is the company thinking?

I guess all of this could change this week if the company chooses to show up for negotiations AND has come to a sudden epiphany that DAL/Alaska Rules/Rates are what it's going to take, but I'll give anyone 10-1 odds that the company clown show will continue. It could be extra clowny if the FB rumors are true that the company is going to try to use a Teamsters loophole to force a vote on an inadequate offer.

Originally Posted by Greyhound89

I've beeb waiting for these guys! What took so long? Cleaning up the Delta app?

Can't say I know what it's like being related to management, I'm not nor am I in a management position. Just a line pilot who's feet are firmly planted on earth.

Originally Posted by Greyhound89

Am I saying to moderate our expectations? No, but asking for Delta pay and Delta work rules at Allegiant is akin to yelling at your Applebee's waitress when your sirloin isn't an A1 Waygu. Like I've said before, if you want Delta, they're hiring.

Originally Posted by Greyhound89

Man oh man, this is good stuff. Spoken to guys in the room? I don't think you signed an NDA, let's see those numbers! My source(s) are very, very reputable. I'm pretty sure there's something floating around from March '22 that would debunk your attempt to disprove the lack of a decent scale, 401k DC etc. I won't disagree, there hasn't been much of the others listed yet. (We absolutely agree on the LTD, it shocked me to see the results of the survey had little care on retirement however.)

I absolutely support our union, but I hope they gathered from the pilot survey we all (for the most part) REALISTIC expectations. If you guys think holding out for years in mediation will result in some unicorn contract, give me whatever you're taking. Our track record with mediation and judges leaves me little hope we'd even get what Spirit has now.

I can say this, the last pass was better than Alaska (on the pay stub, not the work rules). I don't expect you to believe nor do I care.

Am I saying to moderate our expectations? No, but asking for Delta pay and Delta work rules at Allegiant is akin to yelling at your Applebee's waitress when your sirloin isn't an A1 Waygu. Like I've said before, if you want Delta, they're hiring.

Originally Posted by Margaritaville

This is why G4 pilots will never have nice things.

Originally Posted by akulahunter

1) You (or your source) are absolutely, unequivocably incorrect. The company has definitely not offered anything higher than Alaska in either pay or retirement. Your source is either an idiot or a liar. You should actually use your phone and call someone on the E-Board or NC. Obviously they can't give specifics (NDAs), but I'm pretty sure any of them could answer a yes/no on the Alaska question.
2) There are actually two of the company offers floating around out there. My money is on the company leaking them because they are THAT out of touch. Not sure which you are referring to. However, neither of those offers is even in the ballpark of acceptable. The first one would have resulted in us being the fourth highest paid LCC carrier a month after signing it (offered before the NK/Frontier annual bump). The second one I saw was still below JB. I'm not going to say I have seen all possible offers from the company or that I've seen all of the offers being passed around the pilot group. If there is another one out there feel free to shoot it to me via PM. Maybe you have a version I haven't seen yet. The ones I have seen do not fit your description.
3) 1 & 2 don't mean anything without LTD because even with Delta rates plus $25, I'd still vote no. That doesn't even take into account minimum day, block or better by leg, recuced day-off months, inadequate vacation pay, crappy vacation bidding, etc etc etc...

P.S. If you are trying to say that a 15% DC stepped in over numerous years and a Pay scale that doesn't beat JB's four-year-old contract when an entirely new round has started, then that might be where the disconnect might be. It's possible that you are completely out of touch with what the going rate (pay and benefits) is for a pilot in this environment.




I can't believe we agree on something. We are definitely our own worst enemies.

Originally Posted by 310skying

at this point we are playing a rigged game, his source is probably good: it’s most likely his brother. He’s a line pilot, but his brother happens to be one of our two presidents…

Originally Posted by 310skying

at this point we are playing a rigged game, his source is probably good: it’s most likely his brother. He’s a line pilot, but his brother happens to be one of our two presidents…

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

All quite fascinating….

Maury’s not paying us

Build up your personal strike fund

To be continued 2024…..