Contract negotiations
12-07-2022, 08:06 AM
#841
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 69
I've sat back on these forums and enjoyed from afar but I can't any longer. There is a TON to unpack here. First off, for all of you "prospective" allegiant pilots reading this thinking that we've got the most bitter, hard to fly with group in the country, we don't. These forums are where you come to find the few that would truly complain about winning the lottery. Now with that being said, they make some extremely valid points within most of their remarks. First, let's get this out of the way because I know several of you are going to be asking right out of the gate. I sit in the front of the airbus at one of the allegiant bases mid seniority, that's as far as I plan on doxxing myself. With that unpacked, let's touch on my background. This is not my first "major airline", perhaps I lived out of a suitcase at a much larger, on time airline.
Let's dig in.
Can we quit with the whole "Delta or better" antics during negotiations? If you want Delta work rules, guess what, THEY ARE HIRING. Pay is a separate deal, give me all the pay MG is offering (news flash, it's not far off from "industry leading"). Any one of you who would turn down a big pay check for "work rules" that we all know will just result in more grievances really need to re-evaluate. If MG can't respect our work rules now, do we really think that will change with some tougher wording in the CBA? No. Now don't get me wrong, do we need an improvement in several categories? Absolutely. Does this improvement need to make Delta guys drool? No. Guys and gals, we are allegiant. We have an entirely different model and half of this stuff we're begging for can't and won't work here. Let's quit with the whole "they can change the model" bs, who would we be? SY before they ditched first class? That'll be a short lived airline at that point. We fly vacationing folks from nowhere America to the tourist traps, that's not changing any time soon. Let's be REALISTIC, match the big 4's narrow body pay, give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off (guess what, this will come naturally as we get better staffing, it's 2022, people like money.) and SCOPE and we're talking. We all have dreams, and if yours are truly all of the aforementioned and then some, dust off that 4 day bag and start racking up those hotel nights.
Next, JR is not turning us into Playa Resorts 2.0. One single timeshare-- er-- hotel is not going to have MGM shaking in their boots and the shareholders praising him. WE are the money making apparatus of this company and that will not change with 1, 3, or 15 resorts. So let's quit telling guys that we're doomed and soon to be valet drivers at a beach.
Viva, now that circles us back to scope. I can assure you that Viva won't be flying PIE to PIA in an allegiant paint job any time soon. I don't think congress is dumb enough to let MG escape the wrath of Colgan by using 200 hour pilots from south of the border. However, if this new CBA doesn't strictly forbid it, that's a no even if you double that delta pay scale.
Let's dig in.
Can we quit with the whole "Delta or better" antics during negotiations? If you want Delta work rules, guess what, THEY ARE HIRING. Pay is a separate deal, give me all the pay MG is offering (news flash, it's not far off from "industry leading"). Any one of you who would turn down a big pay check for "work rules" that we all know will just result in more grievances really need to re-evaluate. If MG can't respect our work rules now, do we really think that will change with some tougher wording in the CBA? No. Now don't get me wrong, do we need an improvement in several categories? Absolutely. Does this improvement need to make Delta guys drool? No. Guys and gals, we are allegiant. We have an entirely different model and half of this stuff we're begging for can't and won't work here. Let's quit with the whole "they can change the model" bs, who would we be? SY before they ditched first class? That'll be a short lived airline at that point. We fly vacationing folks from nowhere America to the tourist traps, that's not changing any time soon. Let's be REALISTIC, match the big 4's narrow body pay, give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off (guess what, this will come naturally as we get better staffing, it's 2022, people like money.) and SCOPE and we're talking. We all have dreams, and if yours are truly all of the aforementioned and then some, dust off that 4 day bag and start racking up those hotel nights.
Next, JR is not turning us into Playa Resorts 2.0. One single timeshare-- er-- hotel is not going to have MGM shaking in their boots and the shareholders praising him. WE are the money making apparatus of this company and that will not change with 1, 3, or 15 resorts. So let's quit telling guys that we're doomed and soon to be valet drivers at a beach.
Viva, now that circles us back to scope. I can assure you that Viva won't be flying PIE to PIA in an allegiant paint job any time soon. I don't think congress is dumb enough to let MG escape the wrath of Colgan by using 200 hour pilots from south of the border. However, if this new CBA doesn't strictly forbid it, that's a no even if you double that delta pay scale.
12-07-2022, 08:19 AM
#842
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
I've sat back on these forums and enjoyed from afar but I can't any longer. There is a TON to unpack here. First off, for all of you "prospective" allegiant pilots reading this thinking that we've got the most bitter, hard to fly with group in the country, we don't. These forums are where you come to find the few that would truly complain about winning the lottery. Now with that being said, they make some extremely valid points within most of their remarks. First, let's get this out of the way because I know several of you are going to be asking right out of the gate. I sit in the front of the airbus at one of the allegiant bases mid seniority, that's as far as I plan on doxxing myself. With that unpacked, let's touch on my background. This is not my first "major airline", perhaps I lived out of a suitcase at a much larger, on time airline.
Let's dig in.
Can we quit with the whole "Delta or better" antics during negotiations? If you want Delta work rules, guess what, THEY ARE HIRING. Pay is a separate deal, give me all the pay MG is offering (news flash, it's not far off from "industry leading"). Any one of you who would turn down a big pay check for "work rules" that we all know will just result in more grievances really need to re-evaluate. If MG can't respect our work rules now, do we really think that will change with some tougher wording in the CBA? No. Now don't get me wrong, do we need an improvement in several categories? Absolutely. Does this improvement need to make Delta guys drool? No. Guys and gals, we are allegiant. We have an entirely different model and half of this stuff we're begging for can't and won't work here. Let's quit with the whole "they can change the model" bs, who would we be? SY before they ditched first class? That'll be a short lived airline at that point. We fly vacationing folks from nowhere America to the tourist traps, that's not changing any time soon. Let's be REALISTIC, match the big 4's narrow body pay, give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off (guess what, this will come naturally as we get better staffing, it's 2022, people like money.) and SCOPE and we're talking. We all have dreams, and if yours are truly all of the aforementioned and then some, dust off that 4 day bag and start racking up those hotel nights.
Next, JR is not turning us into Playa Resorts 2.0. One single timeshare-- er-- hotel is not going to have MGM shaking in their boots and the shareholders praising him. WE are the money making apparatus of this company and that will not change with 1, 3, or 15 resorts. So let's quit telling guys that we're doomed and soon to be valet drivers at a beach.
Viva, now that circles us back to scope. I can assure you that Viva won't be flying PIE to PIA in an allegiant paint job any time soon. I don't think congress is dumb enough to let MG escape the wrath of Colgan by using 200 hour pilots from south of the border. However, if this new CBA doesn't strictly forbid it, that's a no even if you double that delta pay scale.
Let's dig in.
Can we quit with the whole "Delta or better" antics during negotiations? If you want Delta work rules, guess what, THEY ARE HIRING. Pay is a separate deal, give me all the pay MG is offering (news flash, it's not far off from "industry leading"). Any one of you who would turn down a big pay check for "work rules" that we all know will just result in more grievances really need to re-evaluate. If MG can't respect our work rules now, do we really think that will change with some tougher wording in the CBA? No. Now don't get me wrong, do we need an improvement in several categories? Absolutely. Does this improvement need to make Delta guys drool? No. Guys and gals, we are allegiant. We have an entirely different model and half of this stuff we're begging for can't and won't work here. Let's quit with the whole "they can change the model" bs, who would we be? SY before they ditched first class? That'll be a short lived airline at that point. We fly vacationing folks from nowhere America to the tourist traps, that's not changing any time soon. Let's be REALISTIC, match the big 4's narrow body pay, give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off (guess what, this will come naturally as we get better staffing, it's 2022, people like money.) and SCOPE and we're talking. We all have dreams, and if yours are truly all of the aforementioned and then some, dust off that 4 day bag and start racking up those hotel nights.
Next, JR is not turning us into Playa Resorts 2.0. One single timeshare-- er-- hotel is not going to have MGM shaking in their boots and the shareholders praising him. WE are the money making apparatus of this company and that will not change with 1, 3, or 15 resorts. So let's quit telling guys that we're doomed and soon to be valet drivers at a beach.
Viva, now that circles us back to scope. I can assure you that Viva won't be flying PIE to PIA in an allegiant paint job any time soon. I don't think congress is dumb enough to let MG escape the wrath of Colgan by using 200 hour pilots from south of the border. However, if this new CBA doesn't strictly forbid it, that's a no even if you double that delta pay scale.
If you don’t believe that we deserve a 100% unstack for our pbs or whatever (which no airline in the industry would ever have) then you are a management tool or union busting scab.
Or so I’ve been told on these forums…
12-07-2022, 10:14 AM
#843
Voice of Reason
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Uncomfortable
Posts: 481
I've sat back on these forums and enjoyed from afar but I can't any longer. There is a TON to unpack here. First off, for all of you "prospective" allegiant pilots reading this thinking that we've got the most bitter, hard to fly with group in the country, we don't. These forums are where you come to find the few that would truly complain about winning the lottery. Now with that being said, they make some extremely valid points within most of their remarks. First, let's get this out of the way because I know several of you are going to be asking right out of the gate. I sit in the front of the airbus at one of the allegiant bases mid seniority, that's as far as I plan on doxxing myself. With that unpacked, let's touch on my background. This is not my first "major airline", perhaps I lived out of a suitcase at a much larger, on time airline.
Let's dig in.
Can we quit with the whole "Delta or better" antics during negotiations? If you want Delta work rules, guess what, THEY ARE HIRING. Pay is a separate deal, give me all the pay MG is offering (news flash, it's not far off from "industry leading"). Any one of you who would turn down a big pay check for "work rules" that we all know will just result in more grievances really need to re-evaluate. If MG can't respect our work rules now, do we really think that will change with some tougher wording in the CBA? No. Now don't get me wrong, do we need an improvement in several categories? Absolutely. Does this improvement need to make Delta guys drool? No. Guys and gals, we are allegiant. We have an entirely different model and half of this stuff we're begging for can't and won't work here. Let's quit with the whole "they can change the model" bs, who would we be? SY before they ditched first class? That'll be a short lived airline at that point. We fly vacationing folks from nowhere America to the tourist traps, that's not changing any time soon. Let's be REALISTIC, match the big 4's narrow body pay, give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off (guess what, this will come naturally as we get better staffing, it's 2022, people like money.) and SCOPE and we're talking. We all have dreams, and if yours are truly all of the aforementioned and then some, dust off that 4 day bag and start racking up those hotel nights.
Next, JR is not turning us into Playa Resorts 2.0. One single timeshare-- er-- hotel is not going to have MGM shaking in their boots and the shareholders praising him. WE are the money making apparatus of this company and that will not change with 1, 3, or 15 resorts. So let's quit telling guys that we're doomed and soon to be valet drivers at a beach.
Viva, now that circles us back to scope. I can assure you that Viva won't be flying PIE to PIA in an allegiant paint job any time soon. I don't think congress is dumb enough to let MG escape the wrath of Colgan by using 200 hour pilots from south of the border. However, if this new CBA doesn't strictly forbid it, that's a no even if you double that delta pay scale.
Let's dig in.
Can we quit with the whole "Delta or better" antics during negotiations? If you want Delta work rules, guess what, THEY ARE HIRING. Pay is a separate deal, give me all the pay MG is offering (news flash, it's not far off from "industry leading"). Any one of you who would turn down a big pay check for "work rules" that we all know will just result in more grievances really need to re-evaluate. If MG can't respect our work rules now, do we really think that will change with some tougher wording in the CBA? No. Now don't get me wrong, do we need an improvement in several categories? Absolutely. Does this improvement need to make Delta guys drool? No. Guys and gals, we are allegiant. We have an entirely different model and half of this stuff we're begging for can't and won't work here. Let's quit with the whole "they can change the model" bs, who would we be? SY before they ditched first class? That'll be a short lived airline at that point. We fly vacationing folks from nowhere America to the tourist traps, that's not changing any time soon. Let's be REALISTIC, match the big 4's narrow body pay, give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off (guess what, this will come naturally as we get better staffing, it's 2022, people like money.) and SCOPE and we're talking. We all have dreams, and if yours are truly all of the aforementioned and then some, dust off that 4 day bag and start racking up those hotel nights.
Next, JR is not turning us into Playa Resorts 2.0. One single timeshare-- er-- hotel is not going to have MGM shaking in their boots and the shareholders praising him. WE are the money making apparatus of this company and that will not change with 1, 3, or 15 resorts. So let's quit telling guys that we're doomed and soon to be valet drivers at a beach.
Viva, now that circles us back to scope. I can assure you that Viva won't be flying PIE to PIA in an allegiant paint job any time soon. I don't think congress is dumb enough to let MG escape the wrath of Colgan by using 200 hour pilots from south of the border. However, if this new CBA doesn't strictly forbid it, that's a no even if you double that delta pay scale.
You're right, there is a lot to unpack here. I have spoken to several of the union guys, including guys in the room. Your statement that MG is offering a rate that is "not far off from industry leading" is by all accounts not even close to accurate. I don't know who your source is, but you need a new one. Also, everything that you listed as a work rule that we need (i.e. "give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off and SCOPE") with the exception of add days has not been offered either. Or if they were offered (DC) they were not industry standard.
I'm not the guy who labels others as "management shill," "Koolaid drinker," "union stooge," etc. However, as a first post goes, this screams "moderate your expectations!" The people I have spoken to have been very clear that the company has not offered a rate that even competes with Alaska, much less something that would challenge Delta. (Of course, you could consider beating start-up non-union shops and five-year-old ULCC rates as industry-leading, I don't want to speak for you.) On top of that, the company (MG in one of his videos I believe, but definitely to new hire classes) has said that LTD would bankrupt the company. Really?!? It hasn't bankrupted any of the other airlines, all of which have LTD. (FYI, just so you know where I stand, No LTD to 65 = an automatic "NO" on my part)
According to AR's last update, the company pass of 12, 14, and 16 were regressive to our current crappy contract. How the hell can that even be possible? Worse Hours of Service and Reserve Rules? WTF is the company thinking?
I guess all of this could change this week if the company chooses to show up for negotiations AND has come to a sudden epiphany that DAL/Alaska Rules/Rates are what it's going to take, but I'll give anyone 10-1 odds that the company clown show will continue. It could be extra clowny if the FB rumors are true that the company is going to try to use a Teamsters loophole to force a vote on an inadequate offer.
12-07-2022, 12:15 PM
#846
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,013
12-07-2022, 12:39 PM
#848
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 28
Yeah that's what got me wondering. On allegiant pilot career page it says all airbus fleet. But apc says 737. So I thought they wiped out all of thier 737 and stayed with Airbus.
12-07-2022, 03:11 PM
#849
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 207
I've sat back on these forums and enjoyed from afar but I can't any longer. There is a TON to unpack here. First off, for all of you "prospective" allegiant pilots reading this thinking that we've got the most bitter, hard to fly with group in the country, we don't. These forums are where you come to find the few that would truly complain about winning the lottery. Now with that being said, they make some extremely valid points within most of their remarks. First, let's get this out of the way because I know several of you are going to be asking right out of the gate. I sit in the front of the airbus at one of the allegiant bases mid seniority, that's as far as I plan on doxxing myself. With that unpacked, let's touch on my background. This is not my first "major airline", perhaps I lived out of a suitcase at a much larger, on time airline.
Let's dig in.
Can we quit with the whole "Delta or better" antics during negotiations? If you want Delta work rules, guess what, THEY ARE HIRING. Pay is a separate deal, give me all the pay MG is offering (news flash, it's not far off from "industry leading"). Any one of you who would turn down a big pay check for "work rules" that we all know will just result in more grievances really need to re-evaluate. If MG can't respect our work rules now, do we really think that will change with some tougher wording in the CBA? No. Now don't get me wrong, do we need an improvement in several categories? Absolutely. Does this improvement need to make Delta guys drool? No. Guys and gals, we are allegiant. We have an entirely different model and half of this stuff we're begging for can't and won't work here. Let's quit with the whole "they can change the model" bs, who would we be? SY before they ditched first class? That'll be a short lived airline at that point. We fly vacationing folks from nowhere America to the tourist traps, that's not changing any time soon. Let's be REALISTIC, match the big 4's narrow body pay, give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off (guess what, this will come naturally as we get better staffing, it's 2022, people like money.) and SCOPE and we're talking. We all have dreams, and if yours are truly all of the aforementioned and then some, dust off that 4 day bag and start racking up those hotel nights.
Next, JR is not turning us into Playa Resorts 2.0. One single timeshare-- er-- hotel is not going to have MGM shaking in their boots and the shareholders praising him. WE are the money making apparatus of this company and that will not change with 1, 3, or 15 resorts. So let's quit telling guys that we're doomed and soon to be valet drivers at a beach.
Viva, now that circles us back to scope. I can assure you that Viva won't be flying PIE to PIA in an allegiant paint job any time soon. I don't think congress is dumb enough to let MG escape the wrath of Colgan by using 200 hour pilots from south of the border. However, if this new CBA doesn't strictly forbid it, that's a no even if you double that delta pay scale.
Let's dig in.
Can we quit with the whole "Delta or better" antics during negotiations? If you want Delta work rules, guess what, THEY ARE HIRING. Pay is a separate deal, give me all the pay MG is offering (news flash, it's not far off from "industry leading"). Any one of you who would turn down a big pay check for "work rules" that we all know will just result in more grievances really need to re-evaluate. If MG can't respect our work rules now, do we really think that will change with some tougher wording in the CBA? No. Now don't get me wrong, do we need an improvement in several categories? Absolutely. Does this improvement need to make Delta guys drool? No. Guys and gals, we are allegiant. We have an entirely different model and half of this stuff we're begging for can't and won't work here. Let's quit with the whole "they can change the model" bs, who would we be? SY before they ditched first class? That'll be a short lived airline at that point. We fly vacationing folks from nowhere America to the tourist traps, that's not changing any time soon. Let's be REALISTIC, match the big 4's narrow body pay, give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off (guess what, this will come naturally as we get better staffing, it's 2022, people like money.) and SCOPE and we're talking. We all have dreams, and if yours are truly all of the aforementioned and then some, dust off that 4 day bag and start racking up those hotel nights.
Next, JR is not turning us into Playa Resorts 2.0. One single timeshare-- er-- hotel is not going to have MGM shaking in their boots and the shareholders praising him. WE are the money making apparatus of this company and that will not change with 1, 3, or 15 resorts. So let's quit telling guys that we're doomed and soon to be valet drivers at a beach.
Viva, now that circles us back to scope. I can assure you that Viva won't be flying PIE to PIA in an allegiant paint job any time soon. I don't think congress is dumb enough to let MG escape the wrath of Colgan by using 200 hour pilots from south of the border. However, if this new CBA doesn't strictly forbid it, that's a no even if you double that delta pay scale.
12-07-2022, 04:30 PM
#850
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2022
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 53
I've beeb waiting for these guys! What took so long? Cleaning up the Delta app?
Can't say I know what it's like being related to management, I'm not nor am I in a management position. Just a line pilot who's feet are firmly planted on earth.
Can't say I know what it's like being related to management, I'm not nor am I in a management position. Just a line pilot who's feet are firmly planted on earth.
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