Contract negotiations
12-05-2022, 11:24 AM
#832
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 948
12-05-2022, 12:14 PM
#833
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,170
I think most of the attrition is still seniority 600 and lower. Those above are still trying to decide if the coming shrinkage will actually affect them in their fortress base and if they are too lazy or senior to care. As someone else said minds won't change until the displacements begin but by then the life boats may have already sailed.
12-05-2022, 08:02 PM
#834
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,038
I think most of the attrition is still seniority 600 and lower. Those above are still trying to decide if the coming shrinkage will actually affect them in their fortress base and if they are too lazy or senior to care. As someone else said minds won't change until the displacements begin but by then the life boats may have already sailed.
Other than the obvious part about giving up seniority at another carrier by waiting, rolling the dice on one’s current position isn’t as dangerous as it may seem given the circumstances.
12-05-2022, 08:29 PM
#835
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 948
The beauty of the staffing challenges/shrinkage currently facing the U/LCCs is that, as long as there is a problem, there will be life boats. The mass attrition is a direct result of the mass legacy hiring. If an airline shrinks into non-existence due to staffing it means that the legacies are still hiring in full force. Therefore, there are life boats. If the legacy hiring suddenly stops for some reason, so does the attrition at the U/LCCs, thus, no more immediate problem. In fact, it could mean that staffing growth could resume.
Other than the obvious part about giving up seniority at another carrier by waiting, rolling the dice on one’s current position isn’t as dangerous as it may seem given the circumstances.
Other than the obvious part about giving up seniority at another carrier by waiting, rolling the dice on one’s current position isn’t as dangerous as it may seem given the circumstances.
12-06-2022, 07:53 AM
#836
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,170
The beauty of the staffing challenges/shrinkage currently facing the U/LCCs is that, as long as there is a problem, there will be life boats. The mass attrition is a direct result of the mass legacy hiring. If an airline shrinks into non-existence due to staffing it means that the legacies are still hiring in full force. Therefore, there are life boats. If the legacy hiring suddenly stops for some reason, so does the attrition at the U/LCCs, thus, no more immediate problem. In fact, it could mean that staffing growth could resume.
Other than the obvious part about giving up seniority at another carrier by waiting, rolling the dice on one’s current position isn’t as dangerous as it may seem given the circumstances.
Other than the obvious part about giving up seniority at another carrier by waiting, rolling the dice on one’s current position isn’t as dangerous as it may seem given the circumstances.
12-06-2022, 08:58 PM
#840
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2022
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 53
Insanity
I've sat back on these forums and enjoyed from afar but I can't any longer. There is a TON to unpack here. First off, for all of you "prospective" allegiant pilots reading this thinking that we've got the most bitter, hard to fly with group in the country, we don't. These forums are where you come to find the few that would truly complain about winning the lottery. Now with that being said, they make some extremely valid points within most of their remarks. First, let's get this out of the way because I know several of you are going to be asking right out of the gate. I sit in the front of the airbus at one of the allegiant bases mid seniority, that's as far as I plan on doxxing myself. With that unpacked, let's touch on my background. This is not my first "major airline", perhaps I lived out of a suitcase at a much larger, on time airline.
Let's dig in.
Can we quit with the whole "Delta or better" antics during negotiations? If you want Delta work rules, guess what, THEY ARE HIRING. Pay is a separate deal, give me all the pay MG is offering (news flash, it's not far off from "industry leading"). Any one of you who would turn down a big pay check for "work rules" that we all know will just result in more grievances really need to re-evaluate. If MG can't respect our work rules now, do we really think that will change with some tougher wording in the CBA? No. Now don't get me wrong, do we need an improvement in several categories? Absolutely. Does this improvement need to make Delta guys drool? No. Guys and gals, we are allegiant. We have an entirely different model and half of this stuff we're begging for can't and won't work here. Let's quit with the whole "they can change the model" bs, who would we be? SY before they ditched first class? That'll be a short lived airline at that point. We fly vacationing folks from nowhere America to the tourist traps, that's not changing any time soon. Let's be REALISTIC, match the big 4's narrow body pay, give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off (guess what, this will come naturally as we get better staffing, it's 2022, people like money.) and SCOPE and we're talking. We all have dreams, and if yours are truly all of the aforementioned and then some, dust off that 4 day bag and start racking up those hotel nights.
Next, JR is not turning us into Playa Resorts 2.0. One single timeshare-- er-- hotel is not going to have MGM shaking in their boots and the shareholders praising him. WE are the money making apparatus of this company and that will not change with 1, 3, or 15 resorts. So let's quit telling guys that we're doomed and soon to be valet drivers at a beach.
Viva, now that circles us back to scope. I can assure you that Viva won't be flying PIE to PIA in an allegiant paint job any time soon. I don't think congress is dumb enough to let MG escape the wrath of Colgan by using 200 hour pilots from south of the border. However, if this new CBA doesn't strictly forbid it, that's a no even if you double that delta pay scale.
Let's dig in.
Can we quit with the whole "Delta or better" antics during negotiations? If you want Delta work rules, guess what, THEY ARE HIRING. Pay is a separate deal, give me all the pay MG is offering (news flash, it's not far off from "industry leading"). Any one of you who would turn down a big pay check for "work rules" that we all know will just result in more grievances really need to re-evaluate. If MG can't respect our work rules now, do we really think that will change with some tougher wording in the CBA? No. Now don't get me wrong, do we need an improvement in several categories? Absolutely. Does this improvement need to make Delta guys drool? No. Guys and gals, we are allegiant. We have an entirely different model and half of this stuff we're begging for can't and won't work here. Let's quit with the whole "they can change the model" bs, who would we be? SY before they ditched first class? That'll be a short lived airline at that point. We fly vacationing folks from nowhere America to the tourist traps, that's not changing any time soon. Let's be REALISTIC, match the big 4's narrow body pay, give us a hefty 401k DC, no more add days, better long term disability and loss of medical coverage, a few extra days a month off (guess what, this will come naturally as we get better staffing, it's 2022, people like money.) and SCOPE and we're talking. We all have dreams, and if yours are truly all of the aforementioned and then some, dust off that 4 day bag and start racking up those hotel nights.
Next, JR is not turning us into Playa Resorts 2.0. One single timeshare-- er-- hotel is not going to have MGM shaking in their boots and the shareholders praising him. WE are the money making apparatus of this company and that will not change with 1, 3, or 15 resorts. So let's quit telling guys that we're doomed and soon to be valet drivers at a beach.
Viva, now that circles us back to scope. I can assure you that Viva won't be flying PIE to PIA in an allegiant paint job any time soon. I don't think congress is dumb enough to let MG escape the wrath of Colgan by using 200 hour pilots from south of the border. However, if this new CBA doesn't strictly forbid it, that's a no even if you double that delta pay scale.
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