Contract negotiations
11-03-2022, 11:49 AM
#721
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
Why don't you pm me the name of the source. Put your money where your mouth is.
Either your "source" is BS (very likely) or the union guys and their attorney who has never negotiated an RLA contract before don't know what they're doing. One doesn't simply point at a ratified agreement and say "we'll take that plus X% now". You have to close the other sections first in order to cost out the entire deal. That's why compensation is last. Your tall tale simply doesn't make sense. You wouldn't pass a compensation proposal then go back and hit scheduling and hours of service.
I say you're full of crap, as usual. I'm sticking with your management handlers sent you to spread this one for obvious reasons.
Either your "source" is BS (very likely) or the union guys and their attorney who has never negotiated an RLA contract before don't know what they're doing. One doesn't simply point at a ratified agreement and say "we'll take that plus X% now". You have to close the other sections first in order to cost out the entire deal. That's why compensation is last. Your tall tale simply doesn't make sense. You wouldn't pass a compensation proposal then go back and hit scheduling and hours of service.
I say you're full of crap, as usual. I'm sticking with your management handlers sent you to spread this one for obvious reasons.
MG is in AZ with AR and my source said MG has been hounding AR for months to get him the rates. I'm telling you the source is rock solid.
i reached out to some folks in management and they said MG is in AZ today (he was there yesterday as well). my one management source said they had no clue if union had passed compensation yet. they did say that MG was in AZ and that all the usual legal ppl's calendars were blocked this week.
This doesn't change my mind at all about how long this is gonna take. we are no where close to getting a deal done. i can't imagine us getting a deal without the NMB. too much anti pilot hate from management and too little experience from the union. management said yesterday that they are focusing on margins, they are not interested in the arms race like F9. they found this flight school to get them a real pilot pipeline, they'll probably skirt the contract and give the students seniority numbers or something ridiculous to keep the machine moving. management is betting on a recession and following their old playbook. they are gonna keep the flying low and maximize the margins while this contract gets stuck in the mud.
11-03-2022, 11:56 AM
#722
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
Like I said above what's so unbelievable is that no airline negotiates in Section 6 that way. It would be completely asinine to pass compensation before the other sections are closed out with known costs and you DO NOT just take a negotiated rate and demand it. That's not how negotiations work. It's a package not a pay rate. I really hope your source is BS and they aren't that simplistic.
I just don't understand why you think its so far fetched that exco would put out our section 3 after being hounded by MG for months on end. MG is a bulldog and he can't be easy to keep telling him no. i've been critical of AR in the past, but i dont' really blame him if he finally just said "we know what the rates are now with Alaska's deal getting done, let's just give MG what he wants."
11-03-2022, 12:03 PM
#723
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,013
heard from a very reliable source. i then reached out to top union leadership and got no responses from them which is unusual, normally i get at least a "now's not a good time" or "can't talk about ___". the source was adamant that section 3 was done and that the exco has just been waiting to see if the Alaska deal gets ratified. i believe the source. they have been on point in the past.
11-03-2022, 12:03 PM
#724
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,170
I'll guess we will wait and see.
I do have another question though. Why settle for Alaska +? Why not wait and see what Delta, UAL, and AA come up with? Seems we would immediately get leaped if we take AS+ which wasn't actually a stellar deal an anyones world.
Ir maybe they really are amateurs. I guess time will tell.
Oh and the flight school thing is a joke. 750 hour CFIs in the right seat to the places we fly will be a disaster.
I do have another question though. Why settle for Alaska +? Why not wait and see what Delta, UAL, and AA come up with? Seems we would immediately get leaped if we take AS+ which wasn't actually a stellar deal an anyones world.
Ir maybe they really are amateurs. I guess time will tell.
Oh and the flight school thing is a joke. 750 hour CFIs in the right seat to the places we fly will be a disaster.
11-03-2022, 12:27 PM
#726
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
I'll guess we will wait and see.
I do have another question though. Why settle for Alaska +? Why not wait and see what Delta, UAL, and AA come up with? Seems we would immediately get leaped if we take AS+ which wasn't actually a stellar deal an anyones world.
Ir maybe they really are amateurs. I guess time will tell.
Oh and the flight school thing is a joke. 750 hour CFIs in the right seat to the places we fly will be a disaster.
I do have another question though. Why settle for Alaska +? Why not wait and see what Delta, UAL, and AA come up with? Seems we would immediately get leaped if we take AS+ which wasn't actually a stellar deal an anyones world.
Ir maybe they really are amateurs. I guess time will tell.
Oh and the flight school thing is a joke. 750 hour CFIs in the right seat to the places we fly will be a disaster.
why not wait for the big 4? Because the big 4 are no where near getting deals done. If AA or UA would have ratified their TAs then that would have worked but now who knows how long its gonna be. Also, the big 4 are not losing pilots left and right like the rest of us. even Alaska was experiencing some attrition, though there bigger problem was hiring. The big 4 execs are not in a rush to get a deal done. the pilot shortage is not leverage for those unions because they are still able to hire, their problem is training more than hiring.
11-03-2022, 02:35 PM
#729
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: A-320
Posts: 680
Exactly this! They need seats filled for march and summer. Those suckers that fell for the rumors a year ago and stayed would be upgrading today at DAL or UAL making 300k year 2 and 400k+ year 3 with a new legacy TA.
Last edited by KC135; 11-03-2022 at 02:56 PM.
11-03-2022, 02:37 PM
#730
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 284
I'll guess we will wait and see.
I do have another question though. Why settle for Alaska +? Why not wait and see what Delta, UAL, and AA come up with? Seems we would immediately get leaped if we take AS+ which wasn't actually a stellar deal an anyones world.
Ir maybe they really are amateurs. I guess time will tell.
Oh and the flight school thing is a joke. 750 hour CFIs in the right seat to the places we fly will be a disaster.
I do have another question though. Why settle for Alaska +? Why not wait and see what Delta, UAL, and AA come up with? Seems we would immediately get leaped if we take AS+ which wasn't actually a stellar deal an anyones world.
Ir maybe they really are amateurs. I guess time will tell.
Oh and the flight school thing is a joke. 750 hour CFIs in the right seat to the places we fly will be a disaster.
And since when did the FAA change R-ATP mins to 750 hours? News to me.
The question is, if we get a new CBA by the end of the year t will you say "Wow, nice work, I was wrong."?
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