Contract negotiations
09-01-2022, 10:12 AM
#551
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 559
Did any of you guys ever think that maybe Andrew has built a self fueling machine that keeps him and his drinking buddies in the high paying no fly jobs? IBT actually has a very long history of leaders doing this.
Nope, can't wrap up negotiations. Need to wait for a legacy to get a TA! Which won't happen until some time next year. (Gotta keep that negotiating budget and all the people involved with it working! Let the catered lunches, nice hotels, and bar tabs roll!)
The company doesn't respect us so you gotta file grievances! File, file, file! Grieve everything, let us decide if it has merit! Keep 'em rolling in! (Gotta justify that tens of millions slush fund that bankrolls said activities above. The one they claim passed by a large margin but everyone you talk to says they voted no. The one they tied to a new contract, which they now admit they are intentionally stalling. Not hard to imagine one motivation to stall it as tens of millions of dollars roll in. They've also rebuffed any requests for a full accounting of that fund and what it's been used for, because strategery and reasons.)
And I still haven't gotten an acceptable answer why Andrew lives in Phoenix but bids a line in PGD except to increase his pay by holding a better schedule there than he would get in IWA. I know most of you guys view Andrew as a saint that can do no wrong, but there seems to be a lot of stuff that ain't right going on behind the scenes. But the man's an awesome salesman, I'll hand him that. Or maybe he's a con man.
Nope, can't wrap up negotiations. Need to wait for a legacy to get a TA! Which won't happen until some time next year. (Gotta keep that negotiating budget and all the people involved with it working! Let the catered lunches, nice hotels, and bar tabs roll!)
The company doesn't respect us so you gotta file grievances! File, file, file! Grieve everything, let us decide if it has merit! Keep 'em rolling in! (Gotta justify that tens of millions slush fund that bankrolls said activities above. The one they claim passed by a large margin but everyone you talk to says they voted no. The one they tied to a new contract, which they now admit they are intentionally stalling. Not hard to imagine one motivation to stall it as tens of millions of dollars roll in. They've also rebuffed any requests for a full accounting of that fund and what it's been used for, because strategery and reasons.)
And I still haven't gotten an acceptable answer why Andrew lives in Phoenix but bids a line in PGD except to increase his pay by holding a better schedule there than he would get in IWA. I know most of you guys view Andrew as a saint that can do no wrong, but there seems to be a lot of stuff that ain't right going on behind the scenes. But the man's an awesome salesman, I'll hand him that. Or maybe he's a con man.
The EXCO's bid status is irrelevant. He gets 120 PCH every month, and it would be the same whatever city he bids in. This isn't top secret, you can see it on the bid awards along with the FPL the other union guys are bidding for.
Plenty of mgmt pilots bid random bases and work in Vegas, this is a fairly routine subject. Do all the ALPA leaders at Delta have to bid ATL? Of course not.
The last video said we aren't going to talk about hourly pay til the rest of the contract is done, because rates are a moving target with AA/DL/UA in negotiations. I wouldn't expect anything other than this strategy, pay rates are the easiest thing to bargain because they are simple numbers. Wait to do that til the end.
09-01-2022, 10:39 AM
#552
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 668
Drinking the margaritas early today?
The EXCO's bid status is irrelevant. He gets 120 PCH every month, and it would be the same whatever city he bids in. This isn't top secret, you can see it on the bid awards along with the FPL the other union guys are bidding for.
Plenty of mgmt pilots bid random bases and work in Vegas, this is a fairly routine subject. Do all the ALPA leaders at Delta have to bid ATL? Of course not.
The last video said we aren't going to talk about hourly pay til the rest of the contract is done, because rates are a moving target with AA/DL/UA in negotiations. I wouldn't expect anything other than this strategy, pay rates are the easiest thing to bargain because they are simple numbers. Wait to do that til the end.
The EXCO's bid status is irrelevant. He gets 120 PCH every month, and it would be the same whatever city he bids in. This isn't top secret, you can see it on the bid awards along with the FPL the other union guys are bidding for.
Plenty of mgmt pilots bid random bases and work in Vegas, this is a fairly routine subject. Do all the ALPA leaders at Delta have to bid ATL? Of course not.
The last video said we aren't going to talk about hourly pay til the rest of the contract is done, because rates are a moving target with AA/DL/UA in negotiations. I wouldn't expect anything other than this strategy, pay rates are the easiest thing to bargain because they are simple numbers. Wait to do that til the end.
The strategy that you don't talk hourly rates is very different from what he said in the video which was all of Section 3 and Section 4. The fact of the matter is that until the union passes sections 3 and 4 on compensation and retirement which are absolutely the most important parts of the contract per our surveys, negotiations will not get serious. Management has passed compensation and retirement. Union has not.
There might be reason for that, i'm just nobody starts negotiating seriously until they pass compensation and retirement.
09-01-2022, 12:02 PM
#553
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,987
It's ridiculous that Andrew gets 120PCH. There's no way he could make that much on the line. Im sorry, but nobody should make a windfall off union work. You should make what you would have made on the line. No more, no less. Even 100 hours would be reasonable but 120? No wonder he wants to keep this gig going forever. I'd say whatever I had to say for that kind of money too.
And before you union apologists jump in and tell me how you had a 140PCH month once, we're talking 120 hours every month. Wow. That's ridiculous.
And before you union apologists jump in and tell me how you had a 140PCH month once, we're talking 120 hours every month. Wow. That's ridiculous.
09-01-2022, 12:08 PM
#554
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 69
9easy - not a single management pilot bids, that is absurd and would be the first grievance filed. If AR gets 120 PCH every month then why does he bid a line in PGD instead of IWA? Its because he can't always hold that good of a line in IWA, that is why bid for PGD.
=12pt.
=12pt.
you do realize that ar’s pay is not a secret right? all scheduled union business days are published in the bid packet every month. Ar schedules union business every day at 4 pch per day. The average month would be worth 120pch (131.7 accounting for premium pay). At 12yr capt pay of 232/hr that’s 30,554/month or 366,652 a year. It’s a good check, but honestly not that crazy, senior captains and instructors make that, and ar has plenty to keep him busy for that check.
09-01-2022, 12:40 PM
#555
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 668
It's ridiculous that Andrew gets 120PCH. There's no way he could make that much on the line. Im sorry, but nobody should make a windfall off union work. You should make what you would have made on the line. No more, no less. Even 100 hours would be reasonable but 120? No wonder he wants to keep this gig going forever. I'd say whatever I had to say for that kind of money too.
And before you union apologists jump in and tell me how you had a 140PCH month once, we're talking 120 hours every month. Wow. That's ridiculous.
And before you union apologists jump in and tell me how you had a 140PCH month once, we're talking 120 hours every month. Wow. That's ridiculous.
i get that it pays to be a politician like all of our shills running around washington, but the fact that it is so blatant and self serving is the bummer. the original contract didn't even allow the EXCO to make this much, it capped what they could get via flight pay loss; what changed was that when Andrew became EXCO he got the company to agree to modify the contract and allow him to get flight pay loss every day of the month and he also bids a line on the other side of the country (i get doing one or the other, but both??).
[waiting to read the responses about how myself, Marg, and others who feel this way are actually management and are trying to undermine the pilot group by speaking ill of our prophet, errr, EXCO]
09-01-2022, 02:47 PM
#557
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 207
It's ridiculous that Andrew gets 120PCH. There's no way he could make that much on the line. Im sorry, but nobody should make a windfall off union work. You should make what you would have made on the line. No more, no less. Even 100 hours would be reasonable but 120? No wonder he wants to keep this gig going forever. I'd say whatever I had to say for that kind of money too.
And before you union apologists jump in and tell me how you had a 140PCH month once, we're talking 120 hours every month. Wow. That's ridiculous.
And before you union apologists jump in and tell me how you had a 140PCH month once, we're talking 120 hours every month. Wow. That's ridiculous.
we have about 125 pilots that make between 120-180 hours a month with positive space travel and bid other bases besides LAS and SFB but live there… sucks when pesky facts get in the way
andrew works way harder than that 10% of our pilot group too
09-01-2022, 03:03 PM
#558
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Captain for Skyhawks
Posts: 482
It's ridiculous that Andrew gets 120PCH. There's no way he could make that much on the line. Im sorry, but nobody should make a windfall off union work. You should make what you would have made on the line. No more, no less. Even 100 hours would be reasonable but 120? No wonder he wants to keep this gig going forever. I'd say whatever I had to say for that kind of money too.
And before you union apologists jump in and tell me how you had a 140PCH month once, we're talking 120 hours every month. Wow. That's ridiculous.
And before you union apologists jump in and tell me how you had a 140PCH month once, we're talking 120 hours every month. Wow. That's ridiculous.
What’s the standard at other airlines? They can bid what ever base they want as long as it’s a ghost bid that allows the trips to go to the next person. Are you telling me that if you where in a position like that you would stay in a senior base and bid reserve and only get 70 hours? Dudes working more then 20 days a month. Didn’t he have Covid and continued to work?
At least with being the lowest paid Airbus pilots the 120 hours is not that much of a paycheck.
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09-01-2022, 03:03 PM
#559
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 135
I'm fine with a war chest as well, but at what point is it enough? $30m? $50m?
The fact that the war chest has grown to $10m so quickly is pretty remarkable considering our latest LM-2 Annual Report showed $6.084m in cash on hand as of 12/31/21. Again not opposed to funding the union, but the additional assessment was sold to us as a temporary assessment to build a war chest for arbitrations, etc. $10m is a lot of money for attorney's fees...
The fact that the war chest has grown to $10m so quickly is pretty remarkable considering our latest LM-2 Annual Report showed $6.084m in cash on hand as of 12/31/21. Again not opposed to funding the union, but the additional assessment was sold to us as a temporary assessment to build a war chest for arbitrations, etc. $10m is a lot of money for attorney's fees...
09-01-2022, 03:13 PM
#560
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 559
It's ridiculous that Andrew gets 120PCH. There's no way he could make that much on the line. Im sorry, but nobody should make a windfall off union work. You should make what you would have made on the line. No more, no less. Even 100 hours would be reasonable but 120? No wonder he wants to keep this gig going forever. I'd say whatever I had to say for that kind of money too.
And before you union apologists jump in and tell me how you had a 140PCH month once, we're talking 120 hours every month. Wow. That's ridiculous.
And before you union apologists jump in and tell me how you had a 140PCH month once, we're talking 120 hours every month. Wow. That's ridiculous.
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