Contract negotiations
08-31-2022, 04:23 PM
#541
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 60
They did run a second class, 16 people showed. I guess they were expecting 26, however.
08-31-2022, 04:57 PM
#542
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,023
I think that’s a great idea. I know management put that in their pass in the spring but the “peer group” was ULCC only including breeze and avelo.
Not sure how that would work now with spirit being acquired by JetBlue. The snap up clause is all about who the peer group is, if it’s the entire narrow body industry, then we have Delta and avelo in the same “peer group” which is just awkward. Whatever, they can figure that out. A snap up is a must have imo because that way we are basically guaranteed to never go a year without a pay increase even after the contract expires.
Not sure how that would work now with spirit being acquired by JetBlue. The snap up clause is all about who the peer group is, if it’s the entire narrow body industry, then we have Delta and avelo in the same “peer group” which is just awkward. Whatever, they can figure that out. A snap up is a must have imo because that way we are basically guaranteed to never go a year without a pay increase even after the contract expires.
08-31-2022, 05:56 PM
#543
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Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 76
I'm fine with a war chest as well, but at what point is it enough? $30m? $50m?
The fact that the war chest has grown to $10m so quickly is pretty remarkable considering our latest LM-2 Annual Report showed $6.084m in cash on hand as of 12/31/21. Again not opposed to funding the union, but the additional assessment was sold to us as a temporary assessment to build a war chest for arbitrations, etc. $10m is a lot of money for attorney's fees...
The fact that the war chest has grown to $10m so quickly is pretty remarkable considering our latest LM-2 Annual Report showed $6.084m in cash on hand as of 12/31/21. Again not opposed to funding the union, but the additional assessment was sold to us as a temporary assessment to build a war chest for arbitrations, etc. $10m is a lot of money for attorney's fees...
So far as negotiating compensation, AR never once said he was waiting for a legacy. He did say that we would need to ensure that if we were first we couldn’t just settle for current “industry standard”, but would need to be industry leading, with triggers in place to make sure it stayed that way.
08-31-2022, 08:23 PM
#544
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
Considering how much further we still have to go with negotiations (not to mention arbitrations etc.) that $10 million could be used up pretty fast. My understanding from the Union Town Hall was that they hope to have a big enough war chest by the end of negotiations (whenever that may be) to never have to charge an assessment ever again. And while the constant need to file grievances may be arduous, our ridiculous number of grievances and arbitrations is what initially brought Maury to the table.
So far as negotiating compensation, AR never once said he was waiting for a legacy. He did say that we would need to ensure that if we were first we couldn’t just settle for current “industry standard”, but would need to be industry leading, with triggers in place to make sure it stayed that way.
So far as negotiating compensation, AR never once said he was waiting for a legacy. He did say that we would need to ensure that if we were first we couldn’t just settle for current “industry standard”, but would need to be industry leading, with triggers in place to make sure it stayed that way.
Trust me guys. It’s not the pilot shortage wrecking the industry, generationally high inflation, record fuel prices or the aftermath of the pandemic that brought Maury to the table… it’s the GRIEVANCES.
Maury came to the table in March, right after we lost our sixth straight arbitration because of the GRIEVANCES!
08-31-2022, 08:32 PM
#545
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
I came in after the temporary assessment so I can't say why they were levied initially.
But saying that, attorneys are expensive. Good and experienced attorneys in RLA are very expensive. I'd rather have too much saved up instead of not enough. And that's only one potential expense we may have to pay out for.
In case you are wondering, ALPA has $8,000 per member in assets on their last LM-2 form. That would put us at $8 mil for our pilot group at the same ratio, but we have none of the added resources of locals having extra assets to work with or extra redundancy by working for multiple airlines.
But saying that, attorneys are expensive. Good and experienced attorneys in RLA are very expensive. I'd rather have too much saved up instead of not enough. And that's only one potential expense we may have to pay out for.
In case you are wondering, ALPA has $8,000 per member in assets on their last LM-2 form. That would put us at $8 mil for our pilot group at the same ratio, but we have none of the added resources of locals having extra assets to work with or extra redundancy by working for multiple airlines.
Urban had no airline experience until three years ago when we hired him. And yes we are his only airline client.
Having said all that, $10m is not enough for a strike fund so the assessment should go on, but when is enough enough that is all I’m asking…
09-01-2022, 02:24 AM
#546
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A-320
Posts: 175
When is enough enough?
When we get an industry leading contract with the teeth to enforce it. That’s what the majority of this pilot group wants. We will never take Maury’s BS offers for a quick deal. Not interested. Ever
When we get an industry leading contract with the teeth to enforce it. That’s what the majority of this pilot group wants. We will never take Maury’s BS offers for a quick deal. Not interested. Ever
09-01-2022, 05:47 AM
#547
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 412
Somebody forgot to tell Jedi that Urban has never negotiated a cba for an airline or railroad. He has no experiencing negotiating an RLA contract. Might be problematic when we get to mediation? Oh well I’m sure the airline division will support us, all we did was fire Gleason and Untersherer, the people running it.
Urban had no airline experience until three years ago when we hired him. And yes we are his only airline client.
Having said all that, $10m is not enough for a strike fund so the assessment should go on, but when is enough enough that is all I’m asking…
Urban had no airline experience until three years ago when we hired him. And yes we are his only airline client.
Having said all that, $10m is not enough for a strike fund so the assessment should go on, but when is enough enough that is all I’m asking…
While your point about our lack of experienced negotiators is well taken, that's what the $10m is for. Every airline hires that one set of lawyers (forgot the name) when they do a new contract. It's not because they lack for on staff lawyers, it's because they get expert help. Why shouldn't we do the same?
09-01-2022, 06:01 AM
#548
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,170
Did any of you guys ever think that maybe Andrew has built a self fueling machine that keeps him and his drinking buddies in the high paying no fly jobs? IBT actually has a very long history of leaders doing this.
Nope, can't wrap up negotiations. Need to wait for a legacy to get a TA! Which won't happen until some time next year. (Gotta keep that negotiating budget and all the people involved with it working! Let the catered lunches, nice hotels, and bar tabs roll!)
The company doesn't respect us so you gotta file grievances! File, file, file! Grieve everything, let us decide if it has merit! Keep 'em rolling in! (Gotta justify that tens of millions slush fund that bankrolls said activities above. The one they claim passed by a large margin but everyone you talk to says they voted no. The one they tied to a new contract, which they now admit they are intentionally stalling. Not hard to imagine one motivation to stall it as tens of millions of dollars roll in. They've also rebuffed any requests for a full accounting of that fund and what it's been used for, because strategery and reasons.)
And I still haven't gotten an acceptable answer why Andrew lives in Phoenix but bids a line in PGD except to increase his pay by holding a better schedule there than he would get in IWA. I know most of you guys view Andrew as a saint that can do no wrong, but there seems to be a lot of stuff that ain't right going on behind the scenes. But the man's an awesome salesman, I'll hand him that. Or maybe he's a con man.
Nope, can't wrap up negotiations. Need to wait for a legacy to get a TA! Which won't happen until some time next year. (Gotta keep that negotiating budget and all the people involved with it working! Let the catered lunches, nice hotels, and bar tabs roll!)
The company doesn't respect us so you gotta file grievances! File, file, file! Grieve everything, let us decide if it has merit! Keep 'em rolling in! (Gotta justify that tens of millions slush fund that bankrolls said activities above. The one they claim passed by a large margin but everyone you talk to says they voted no. The one they tied to a new contract, which they now admit they are intentionally stalling. Not hard to imagine one motivation to stall it as tens of millions of dollars roll in. They've also rebuffed any requests for a full accounting of that fund and what it's been used for, because strategery and reasons.)
And I still haven't gotten an acceptable answer why Andrew lives in Phoenix but bids a line in PGD except to increase his pay by holding a better schedule there than he would get in IWA. I know most of you guys view Andrew as a saint that can do no wrong, but there seems to be a lot of stuff that ain't right going on behind the scenes. But the man's an awesome salesman, I'll hand him that. Or maybe he's a con man.
09-01-2022, 06:35 AM
#549
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 69
Did any of you guys ever think that maybe Andrew has built a self fueling machine that keeps him and his drinking buddies in the high paying no fly jobs? IBT actually has a very long history of leaders doing this.
Nope, can't wrap up negotiations. Need to wait for a legacy to get a TA! Which won't happen until some time next year. (Gotta keep that negotiating budget and all the people involved with it working! Let the catered lunches, nice hotels, and bar tabs roll!)
The company doesn't respect us so you gotta file grievances! File, file, file! Grieve everything, let us decide if it has merit! Keep 'em rolling in! (Gotta justify that tens of millions slush fund that bankrolls said activities above. The one they claim passed by a large margin but everyone you talk to says they voted no. The one they tied to a new contract, which they now admit they are intentionally stalling. Not hard to imagine one motivation to stall it as tens of millions of dollars roll in. They've also rebuffed any requests for a full accounting of that fund and what it's been used for, because strategery and reasons.)
And I still haven't gotten an acceptable answer why Andrew lives in Phoenix but bids a line in PGD except to increase his pay by holding a better schedule there than he would get in IWA. I know most of you guys view Andrew as a saint that can do no wrong, but there seems to be a lot of stuff that ain't right going on behind the scenes. But the man's an awesome salesman, I'll hand him that. Or maybe he's a con man.
Nope, can't wrap up negotiations. Need to wait for a legacy to get a TA! Which won't happen until some time next year. (Gotta keep that negotiating budget and all the people involved with it working! Let the catered lunches, nice hotels, and bar tabs roll!)
The company doesn't respect us so you gotta file grievances! File, file, file! Grieve everything, let us decide if it has merit! Keep 'em rolling in! (Gotta justify that tens of millions slush fund that bankrolls said activities above. The one they claim passed by a large margin but everyone you talk to says they voted no. The one they tied to a new contract, which they now admit they are intentionally stalling. Not hard to imagine one motivation to stall it as tens of millions of dollars roll in. They've also rebuffed any requests for a full accounting of that fund and what it's been used for, because strategery and reasons.)
And I still haven't gotten an acceptable answer why Andrew lives in Phoenix but bids a line in PGD except to increase his pay by holding a better schedule there than he would get in IWA. I know most of you guys view Andrew as a saint that can do no wrong, but there seems to be a lot of stuff that ain't right going on behind the scenes. But the man's an awesome salesman, I'll hand him that. Or maybe he's a con man.
also, Andrew’s pay is not that outrageous. Bidding another base is common for instructors who live in Vegas or Sanford as well, not that strange. The idea he’s stalling intentionally so he can sit around with a slush fund is absurd. If anything he needs a good contract so we vote him back in when election rolls around in a couple years.
remove the tin hat.
09-01-2022, 07:03 AM
#550
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 76
Where was it admitted that they (the union) are intentionally stalling? AR’s last video communication didn’t imply this at all. Sure there’s still a LONG way to go, and you might speculate this based on your other views towards the union and it’s leadership, but there seems to be a great deal of bloated opinion masquerading as fact right now.
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