Contract negotiations
Today, 04:34 AM
#2221
First Off
Joined APC: Jul 2023
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 35
There's a phrase that gets floated around... "Industry standard". I think just about everyone is on board with industry standard. BUT? To many want an industry standard CONTRACT, and that is unrealistic, much less would it actually benefit us. Should we have industry standard pay? Yes. Industry standard DC? Yes. Industry Standard loss of license/medical? Yes. Do I want industry standard Scope or Reserve? No, and some yes.
What do I mean by that... industry standard scope gave away a lot of jobs to RJs. We don't want that. Does Delta have an agreement with Aeromexico? Yes. Do we want exactly the same? Probaly not, we need something that protects OUR jobs and "business model. Do we want industry standard reserve? Not all of it. At Delta and American you can't just pick up open time. Do we need a better short call time? Yes, many would like to see 2:30. Should we have long call? Personally I don't need it, most everyone doesn't want it or believes it's important. My understanding is the company wants it. Why? So they can ship out reserves as needed to cover other bases. Is that common "practice" in the industry, well at my last two regionals it was. Is at the legacies? Maybe, I dunno, someone could add to this.
Here's what I'm saying, based on my conversations, most everyone ABSOLUTELY wants industry standard, or close to industry standard on Pay (includes mind day, trip rig, duty rig to name a few), DC, Loss of license/medical. And proper scope. These are the main things most pilots tell me they want now. Yes, we would like improvements on reserve and other things. But the question is, should these "other things" be an anchor to the others? That's the million dollar question. There has to be an honest conversation and poll that gets the temperature of the pilot group of what they really want right now/soon.
As far as "we must have day trips as the norm and protected as the only way"... I'm sorry but I don't agree with that. Bc at that point you're telling the company how to make money. I don't think day trips are going anywhere, but we know multi day pairings could make it in soon. We're going to have to accept the fact that contract NUMBER 2 wont be a perfect everyone wins contract. That is unrealistic. We should be paving the way with improvements, industry standard things that pave the way for contract number 3. Just my two cents.
What do I mean by that... industry standard scope gave away a lot of jobs to RJs. We don't want that. Does Delta have an agreement with Aeromexico? Yes. Do we want exactly the same? Probaly not, we need something that protects OUR jobs and "business model. Do we want industry standard reserve? Not all of it. At Delta and American you can't just pick up open time. Do we need a better short call time? Yes, many would like to see 2:30. Should we have long call? Personally I don't need it, most everyone doesn't want it or believes it's important. My understanding is the company wants it. Why? So they can ship out reserves as needed to cover other bases. Is that common "practice" in the industry, well at my last two regionals it was. Is at the legacies? Maybe, I dunno, someone could add to this.
Here's what I'm saying, based on my conversations, most everyone ABSOLUTELY wants industry standard, or close to industry standard on Pay (includes mind day, trip rig, duty rig to name a few), DC, Loss of license/medical. And proper scope. These are the main things most pilots tell me they want now. Yes, we would like improvements on reserve and other things. But the question is, should these "other things" be an anchor to the others? That's the million dollar question. There has to be an honest conversation and poll that gets the temperature of the pilot group of what they really want right now/soon.
As far as "we must have day trips as the norm and protected as the only way"... I'm sorry but I don't agree with that. Bc at that point you're telling the company how to make money. I don't think day trips are going anywhere, but we know multi day pairings could make it in soon. We're going to have to accept the fact that contract NUMBER 2 wont be a perfect everyone wins contract. That is unrealistic. We should be paving the way with improvements, industry standard things that pave the way for contract number 3. Just my two cents.
Today, 06:27 AM
#2222
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2024
Posts: 6
Jimmy8 and Captainbfv seem to demonstrate that more reasonable voices are finally emerging within our pilot group. Let's hope this makes its way to our negotiation team.
Unfortunately, the "Industry Standard" mindset has taken hold among our union and a significant portion of our pilot group. This mentality often makes them overlook the fact that several aspects of our current conditions (some of which Captainbfv mentioned) are actually better than the so-called "Industry Standard." Let's preserve those and compromise on other items.!
I mostly agree with your comments on "what we want," but it's important to also consider what we can realistically achieve, which will likely fall short of the ideal. And that should be just fine for most of us : )
Unfortunately, the "Industry Standard" mindset has taken hold among our union and a significant portion of our pilot group. This mentality often makes them overlook the fact that several aspects of our current conditions (some of which Captainbfv mentioned) are actually better than the so-called "Industry Standard." Let's preserve those and compromise on other items.!
I mostly agree with your comments on "what we want," but it's important to also consider what we can realistically achieve, which will likely fall short of the ideal. And that should be just fine for most of us : )
Today, 06:42 AM
#2223
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,248
Provided that individuals continue to propagate your perspective, obtaining a new contract will remain impossible. This scenario is analogous to a disgruntled child within a toy store, vehemently insisting, "I desire everything at once."
In essence, you are advocating for remuneration and occupational conditions akin to those found within flagship carriers, while avoiding overnight assignments and simultaneously preserving the current skewed VFN system benefitting the senior pilots. Such expectations appear to be so disconnected from achievable realities that they verge on the comical.
In essence, you are advocating for remuneration and occupational conditions akin to those found within flagship carriers, while avoiding overnight assignments and simultaneously preserving the current skewed VFN system benefitting the senior pilots. Such expectations appear to be so disconnected from achievable realities that they verge on the comical.
I perceive the situation in a comparable manner. The issue extends beyond just the union; it encompasses a significant segment of our pilot cohort that resorts to rhetoric reminiscent of a communist manifesto. We have conceded excessively by allowing negotiations to drag out unduly, and it continues to get worse as time moves on.
Wish I had a buck for every time this company and their law firm came on here pretending to be a pilot to lower expectations.
Best of luck guys. You deserve it.
Today, 07:11 AM
#2224
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2024
Posts: 6
Margaritaville, it appears, posits the rather curious notion that the formation of coherent and complete sentences must invariably indicate that the individual in question is not a pilot, but rather belongs to the ranks of management, a lawyer or a bot.
One must fervently hope that the esteemed members of our pilot group possess a more elevated level of self-regard than what this assertion would imply.
One must fervently hope that the esteemed members of our pilot group possess a more elevated level of self-regard than what this assertion would imply.
Today, 07:59 AM
#2225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 954
Margaritaville, it appears, posits the rather curious notion that the formation of coherent and complete sentences must invariably indicate that the individual in question is not a pilot, but rather belongs to the ranks of management, a lawyer or a bot.
One must fervently hope that the esteemed members of our pilot group possess a more elevated level of self-regard than what this assertion would imply.
One must fervently hope that the esteemed members of our pilot group possess a more elevated level of self-regard than what this assertion would imply.
Today, 08:12 AM
#2226
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,248
Margaritaville, it appears, posits the rather curious notion that the formation of coherent and complete sentences must invariably indicate that the individual in question is not a pilot, but rather belongs to the ranks of management, a lawyer or a bot.
One must fervently hope that the esteemed members of our pilot group possess a more elevated level of self-regard than what this assertion would imply.
One must fervently hope that the esteemed members of our pilot group possess a more elevated level of self-regard than what this assertion would imply.
Actually this reads like the instruction manual of something bought on Temu.
Troll on.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
