Margaritaville

Spirit hasn't declared bk yet. You must have crystal balls.
Frontier seems to be hanging in there.
An AB or 737 isn't flown differently at a ULCC vs. a Legacy.

You're a fool if you think you're worth less because of where you work. Industry standard is the pay the rate for the equipment. What you're really doing here is giving management a discount because you place monetary value on being home every night. Again. Don't be a sellout and bring the whole industry down because you have low expectations and low value on your worth because you know you'll retire from allegiant.

tailendcharlie

The truth, indeed, is the vast majority here place day trips above all else. A year or two ago when it was truly crazy & you could practically walk on at a legacy & have an unheard-off career in front of you, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, everyone thought the big takeaway from that was we were losing 30 pilots/mo. omg what leverage we have. No. The takeaway was Allegiant did NOT lose 50, 60, 70% of their pilots. It was mostly churn at the bottom of the list. Management took note. They have them by the b@!!s because they'll do everything short of sell off their firstborn to keep the day trips. Management has the leverage, there's no mass-exodus threat.

OldSchoolSally

Which member of the NC told you that? I have been to a base visit and talked to a couple of them on the phone and none of them have told me that. They said JetBlue and SWA are the highest paid (not Delta/United/AA), but never said that Alaska rates (or any rate for that matter) "won't get it done." In fact, they told me the rates aren't most important part, it's the other stuff. I was told that the rates will be part of an overall package. I'm throwing the BS flag here.

captnate702

Spirit is a walking zombie but yea, they haven't declared bk yet. Its only a matter of time. they will not last in their current state a year from now when their $600m secured notes are due. They don't even know if they'll be able to process flights with visa and mastercard after in January 2025. The way spirit gets saved is if uncle sam bails them out.

Margi - you are right they are not flown differently, but saying who you work for has no impact on how much you get paid is absurd. It fails common sense. The audience that has to believe this stuff is the NMB. Our mediator spent her career at frontier and spirit, you think she's gonna believe the circus that is the IBT that it doesn't matter where you work, in fact where you work actually has zero impact on how much you should get paid??? Listen to yourself, you are capable of common sense.

I'm being realistic because our union has been living in the clouds for the last 5 years and needs a dose of common sense. Living in their own little has screwed this pilot group. Lock in a deal. Get us our pay. The market is turning for the worse and we are losing out on hundreds of thousands that we will never see again.

Margi - all this nonsense about "sellingout" and "letting down the industry" is such political b.s. next you're gonna tell me that my bumper stickers are causing you physical harm and violence.

Instead, give me concrete arguments/reasons for why we should drag this out another two years hoping to get 95% of legacy rates? seriously how does that benefit our pilot group? give me real reasons, like money reasons or big quality of life reasons for why we should wait this out?

captnate702

Of course they do. You are just now figuring this out? If we didn't value day trips above all else why else would we be here? There is not a single reason to be here otherwise. Glad you tracked down all the clues sherlock and figured out the mystery of the industry.

I have only ever heard three reasons from pilots for why they are at allegiant: 1. day trips 2. type rating 3. couldn't get hired anywhere else (okay they don't actually tell me that but sometimes its obvious - tho that is the vast minority of our pilots).

tailendcharlie

Congrats on your self-awareness Nate. Pass that info along to GU & the NC & the "I'm filling out apps!" bluffers who think there's an impending hiring boom 2.0 & there'll be a "mass exodus" out of here if we don't get a legacy contract. Or when we do get a contract & they get their rb.

captnate702

I am just shocked that some people don't get it. I try to be as transparent as possible with new hires or potential applicants on these forums: only reason to be here are day trips. That also means: never ever ever try to commute for any extended period of time. If you're gonna commute for the foreseeable why not go somewhere that actually pays more, or at least, has commutable schedules.

I was overly snarky in my response, but you are absolutely about the mass exodus that never happened because a large percentage of our pilots have had the good life of not commuting or staying in hotels and don't want to envision a future without it. Now Margi will tell us that we over value these things and he's probably right. There's probably a lot of us that once we rip off the band aid and have a more traditional 121 passenger schedule we'd get used to it and it wouldn't be the living hell that we have created in our minds - that is absolutely possible if not probable.

But most of us will never rip off that band aid, even though many that have ripped it off, couldn't imagine NOT having done it - I'm looking at you Margi. But now we can just go down the rabbit hole of human psychology, our inherent fear of risk and catastraphozing professional downturns that are cyclical and repetitive.

tom11011

I doubt that highly. Aren't you going to be disappointed!

Bitcoin

This doesn't even make sense considering Alaska rates are higher than current Delta rates. As of Sept 1st 2024, Alaska year 1 CA $332.91, year 11 CA $361.29. Year 1 FO $119.92 year 3 FO $205.72 year 11 FO $249.76.

OldSchoolSally

I asked Nate who told him that and he ignored me. Normal BS. Make statements that "someone said" and then not back it up. If it's true say who it was so that person can come on here and confirm or deny. I went to a base visit and talked to a couple of members of the NC and none of them said that actual Alaska rates weren't good enough.