Contract negotiations
04-15-2022, 05:21 PM
#191
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
Agreed, they don't want it. Agreed they are just acknowledging the time and steps it takes to get to arbitration.
Also, many people are concerned about what MG does or doesn't do. He is stepping away as an officer of the company in June I believe. He will be on the Board, and as the largest share holder at 13% I believe, he will be chairman, but I don't see his involvement in the day to day. JR will be at the helm and maybe some things may change, but maybe not. The culture of this company will have to start at the top.
Also, many people are concerned about what MG does or doesn't do. He is stepping away as an officer of the company in June I believe. He will be on the Board, and as the largest share holder at 13% I believe, he will be chairman, but I don't see his involvement in the day to day. JR will be at the helm and maybe some things may change, but maybe not. The culture of this company will have to start at the top.
Again I’m not criticizing EXCO’s strategy, it’s probably the right move given the leverage. But it is a risk if we lose the leverage of attrition due to some global recession, war, etc.
To be clear: I don’t think you ever plan your strategy around some unknown catastrophic event that may or may not happen so EXCO is probably going to be proven right. But to not acknowledge the obvious risk is just being naive.
04-15-2022, 06:16 PM
#192
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 566
Maybe the rumors I’m hearing are wrong, but they’ve been pretty accurate thus far. EXCO hasn’t even proposed any work rules yet because they are slow playing it until the company actually sees the attrition on the seniority list. Now the attrition results are just starting to manifest to management so maybe EXCO will now think it’s the time to start work rules and comp. Thus far it’s been primarily Sections 24, 18, 19, and 7.
Again I’m not criticizing EXCO’s strategy, it’s probably the right move given the leverage. But it is a risk if we lose the leverage of attrition due to some global recession, war, etc.
To be clear: I don’t think you ever plan your strategy around some unknown catastrophic event that may or may not happen so EXCO is probably going to be proven right. But to not acknowledge the obvious risk is just being naive.
Again I’m not criticizing EXCO’s strategy, it’s probably the right move given the leverage. But it is a risk if we lose the leverage of attrition due to some global recession, war, etc.
To be clear: I don’t think you ever plan your strategy around some unknown catastrophic event that may or may not happen so EXCO is probably going to be proven right. But to not acknowledge the obvious risk is just being naive.
04-15-2022, 06:23 PM
#193
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 713
Even if/when the recession hits, there'll still be a pilot shortage. The airlines were having issues staffing during covid and maintaining their schedule, now with demand rebounding, all hell has broken loose. There isn't nearly enough new pilots being made, so it'll continue to be advantage to labor.
04-16-2022, 04:48 AM
#194
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 284
If this company makes the decision to turn into a majority overnight airline and startsc closing bases, I guarantee you the attrition will increase dramatically.
Why work here doing overnights for less pay? There are lots of pilots who arent the vocal few on FB and this forum who are very happy in the base they moved to. Losing their base to do overnights out of FL or Vegas isnt appealing to many.
The day that happens is the day attrition goes through the roof.
Why work here doing overnights for less pay? There are lots of pilots who arent the vocal few on FB and this forum who are very happy in the base they moved to. Losing their base to do overnights out of FL or Vegas isnt appealing to many.
The day that happens is the day attrition goes through the roof.
04-16-2022, 04:54 AM
#195
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A-320
Posts: 175
AA isn't going anywhere. If an upcoming recession is so deep that it affects the majors, taking a quick pay increase now isn't smart because it will cause Allegiant the same problems and they will just get their corrupt NV judges to throw the CBA out.
There is no win in taking a quick contract except for the company.
04-16-2022, 04:58 AM
#196
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 69
If this company makes the decision to turn into a majority overnight airline and startsc closing bases, I guarantee you the attrition will increase dramatically.
Why work here doing overnights for less pay? There are lots of pilots who arent the vocal few on FB and this forum who are very happy in the base they moved to. Losing their base to do overnights out of FL or Vegas isnt appealing to many.
The day that happens is the day attrition goes through the roof.
Why work here doing overnights for less pay? There are lots of pilots who arent the vocal few on FB and this forum who are very happy in the base they moved to. Losing their base to do overnights out of FL or Vegas isnt appealing to many.
The day that happens is the day attrition goes through the roof.
04-16-2022, 07:25 AM
#197
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
Even if/when the recession hits, there'll still be a pilot shortage. The airlines were having issues staffing during covid and maintaining their schedule, now with demand rebounding, all hell has broken loose. There isn't nearly enough new pilots being made, so it'll continue to be advantage to labor.
04-16-2022, 07:53 AM
#199
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,170
How can the union make management over haul the contract? Management takes their marching orders from MG, not this union or any union. He won’t pay for a comprehensive industry leading contract.
We already went over this as a group, we’re not agreeing to a cash only, no work rules thin contract. Which is the offer from management. That money to be eaten up by inflation is gone, MG has made his decision to not pay for a growth-oriented industry leading pilot contract.
We already went over this as a group, we’re not agreeing to a cash only, no work rules thin contract. Which is the offer from management. That money to be eaten up by inflation is gone, MG has made his decision to not pay for a growth-oriented industry leading pilot contract.
I don’t think the EXCO “wants” this to take 3-5 years rather are acknowledging the reality once MG dug in his heels turned away from the growth plan & stopped negotiating in good faith. Unless some kind of corporate transaction intervenes the course is set toward a downsized airline, a likely pilot strike, but eventually, a new CBA that does away with the myriad bs “Allegiant we’re different” work rules and offers industry-standard pay & retirement. And base closings and overnights will be good for this pilot group; it’ll wake up the head-in-the-sand crowd who think being home every night is the holy grail.
Imo, the strategy the union has put out is negotiating in good faith, i.e. not leaking out information to divide and conquer like management has done. Or, directly soliciting the pilot group outside of the bargaining table like management has and is doing. Or, violating their confidentiality agreement with the negotiating committee.
The company strategically called for a few more negotiating sessions, the union agreed. Only to pass garbage. Don’t know of any other strategy you speak of.
The company strategically called for a few more negotiating sessions, the union agreed. Only to pass garbage. Don’t know of any other strategy you speak of.
Negotiating a contract with Maury is like negotiating a peace deal with Putin. He will laugh in your face, sign it, and bomb you the next day. The only way to hit Putin is to financially hit the Oligarchs who support him. Maury is the same way. That, my friends, is the road map to success here. But I doubt this pilot group has the fortitude to pull it off. Maybe I'm wrong.
04-16-2022, 07:54 AM
#200
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 207
sanity will prevail, this is absolutely what anyone who is a pilot at Allegiant should be doing
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