captnate702

tell us why IBT is a better option for us than ALPA. Don’t treat us like children with name calling and toothless threats.

tzskipper1

Just a little perspective from the past. Specifically the quotes from the ATA MEC Chairman regarding the support of ALPA during negotiations after changing representation:

"The transition to ALPA was everything we had hoped for, and a lot more," says Capt. Erik Engdahl, ATA MEC chairman. "The real proof came at contract negotiations time. I was chairman of our Negotiating Committee, and the support we got from ALPA at the bargaining table with staff from the Representation and Economic and Financial Analysis Departments was light years ahead of what our previous union provided," says Capt. Engdahl. "We got a great contract, and we could not have done that if we had not voted in ALPA. And after the contract was settled, the ALPA staff did not just disappear—they are still there to this day helping us with contract enforcement and on-going problem solving."

I believe the decertificaiton vote also took place during negotiations. As an aside, ATA "wrote in" ALPA via the NMB vote to decertify the Teamsters.

S

https://www2.alpa.org/alpa/desktopmo...ocumentid=4256

DwightSnute

In a past life, our old Teamster's local did the same thing to us when we decertified and went with different representation. They threatened any organizers, saying they would ruin their careers and ensure that they would be blacklisted at all other airlines. The IBT representation was some of the worst I've ever encountered.

GU was a part of 1224. We left 1224 for a reason (and I'm ignoring AR's issues here). The lawyers/business agent paid themselves well beyond what was an amount commensurate with the level of service we received. The first CBA was garbage. They have done nothing except collect your dues money since (highest in industry). There's a reason that no other major is IBT. As for being rejected for representation during the second union drive at G4, ALPA had just lost the TWA lawsuit. I'm not sure what effect the 2009 organizing effort also had on ALPA's decision to not pursue another drive.

AR and his cronies were terrible for you guys, but GU is no better. You traded one $hitshow for another. The sooner you go ALPA, the better your outcome. And based on GU's communications about negotiations, it's not like your new contract is going to be delayed much further if you switch representation.

DwightSnute

Why wouldn't they hide their info? If GU is threatening them with sanctions, I think that's reason enough to hide their identities.

tailendcharlie

After what went on the last couple years & these guys - most of them - are right back to swallowing whatever they're told.

pipercub

He works for the teamsters of course he is going to say they are the best option. I think what he is saying is that if your are activally working against the teamsters then you can be removed as a memeber in good standing for breaking bylaws. This is true even at ALPA if you break their rules and work against the union, they can and will remove you from being in good standing. Once again if someone feels like beyond everything and all that is going on that ALPA is the best option they should be willing to put that out in public and willing to give up their membership in good standing to make that happen. If you listened to the GMM or watch the video when posted they talked about why IBT is better. Once again he works for IBT so he is always going to say that. They (IBT) has the opertunity right now to put all that to work and show the Allegiant pilots what they can do. Then after the contract if enough pilots are disatisfied with the results and the conduct going forward we can look at options. I still say now is a bad bad time to look to replace it can and very likely would delay an possible contract completion. A card drive right now also works against the group as a whole as it will split the pilot group once again and this benifits only the company. The truth of unions and what they can do for us IBT and or ALPA is if the pilots are Unified. If this pilot group will not Unifi and stand for their rightfull contract it will not mater who represents us the company will continue to exploit that division. For those that want ALPA you better know if you can get the cards because if you go all in now and fail, it would be unlikely ALPA will use resorces to help in the future. You will miss out on a lot of cards with those that my rather ALPA but know this is not the time. I think if the card drive fails and it likely will you remove ALPA from an option for at least sometime in the future.

tom11011

In my opinion, ALPA currently does not have the support of the pilots for the same reason AR won the last election. The majority didn't want to interrupt and delay the mediated contract negotiation process. It's clear it would be another time setback. Standing up a new team would be a lengthy process as well and you can't just assume those who volunteer today would be willing to volunteer tomorrow.

If we were not in the middle of negotitations, its possible AR would have lost the election and/or ALPA could be voted in.

pipercub

The worst GU can do is remove you as a member in good standing. The threat is not realy to those already all in on ALPA its to those that might want the change but will not rock the boat. The only way we get a good deal is to be unified. The worst thing would be for this group of pilots to show the company again that only half are engaged in the process and that half is split. The only way a change to ALPA in the middle of NEG would be helpful is if that ment 85% plus of the pilots would be unified and push together. I just do not see this group doing that. Any pilot wanting the best contract possible the fasted need to help unifi the pilot group to force the company to come to the table and work towards the deal we want.

captnate702

if we want the best contract possible then we MUST switch to ALPA. There is no reason to believe that IBT can deliver as good a contract as ALPA.

I find it incredibly ironic and downright absurd that the same group of pilots that said “it takes as long as it takes” are now saying “ALPA is definitely a better option and would deliver a better contract but we don’t want the contract to take too long so let’s settle for whatever contract the IBT can get us.”

it’s all filled with circular fallacies and disingenuous cheerleading.

If we think ALPA is better then now is by far the most important time to change so that we guarantee that get the best contract possible - doesn’t matter how long it takes.

tom11011

They are free to campaign, hopefully they come out of the shadows.