Contract negotiations
06-19-2024, 08:00 AM
#1891
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 227
A friend sent this to me yesterday. An ALPA card drive? In the middle of negotiations? Are you guys nuts?
https://aerocrewnews.com/aviation-ne...epresentation/
I remember several years ago when a small group looked into this and apparently were told by ALPA organizers that G4 pilots could not go directly from IBT to ALPA because the two signed a no compete clause. Apparently the only way to do it would be to decertify IBT to go non union and then recertify ALPA with another card drive. That sounds extremely dangerous at a place like allegiant where you know Maury is going to put his thumb on the scale and a lot of pilots will listen.
Y'all keep this up and you're going to find yourselves with no contract and no protection. Ask around what it was like working there before the union came on property. Also how much is in that Andrew "negotiations" slush fund? What happens to that money?
Y'all know I'm no fan of Andrew or the IBT but this is the nuclear option. A crappy union is better than no union. Probably not a good time for this.
https://aerocrewnews.com/aviation-ne...epresentation/
I remember several years ago when a small group looked into this and apparently were told by ALPA organizers that G4 pilots could not go directly from IBT to ALPA because the two signed a no compete clause. Apparently the only way to do it would be to decertify IBT to go non union and then recertify ALPA with another card drive. That sounds extremely dangerous at a place like allegiant where you know Maury is going to put his thumb on the scale and a lot of pilots will listen.
Y'all keep this up and you're going to find yourselves with no contract and no protection. Ask around what it was like working there before the union came on property. Also how much is in that Andrew "negotiations" slush fund? What happens to that money?
Y'all know I'm no fan of Andrew or the IBT but this is the nuclear option. A crappy union is better than no union. Probably not a good time for this.
06-19-2024, 08:15 AM
#1892
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 196
Everyone that came post contract needs to understand that the comment about the first union drive and contract being a 'holy war' is absolutely the truth. Decertifying to try to vote ALPA in would be a huge mistake. Maybe someone needs to educate everyone about the history at Allegiant and with Maury.
06-19-2024, 08:30 AM
#1893
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,248
Everyone that came post contract needs to understand that the comment about the first union drive and contract being a 'holy war' is absolutely the truth. Decertifying to try to vote ALPA in would be a huge mistake. Maybe someone needs to educate everyone about the history at Allegiant and with Maury.
Tell them about using AIS for all bidding and scheduling purposes.
Tell them about getting fired because you evacuated a smoke filled MD80 on a taxiway at PIE after someone (allegedly the regional chief pilot) hopped on the ground frequency and told you not to and then you went to your hearing and told them "I'm the PIC and I'll evacuate if I decide it's the safest course of action" instead of apologizing.
Tell them about work rules and pay being changed at will. Being scheduled to FAR limits.
Tell them about the "6 month employment contract" because you went to training every 6 months and they could basically do anything they wanted to you and the company used training as a weapon against agitators.
Tell them about getting TDY'd out of your base for 6-12 months straight and having no recourse.
06-19-2024, 01:07 PM
#1894
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 154
06-19-2024, 05:33 PM
#1895
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: MD80 CA
Posts: 334
"Unionization is one of those things that clogs the arteries and makes you less quick and not as nimble as you need to be on top of your game." - Maury Gallagher, 2011
Tell them about using AIS for all bidding and scheduling purposes.
Tell them about getting fired because you evacuated a smoke filled MD80 on a taxiway at PIE after someone (allegedly the regional chief pilot) hopped on the ground frequency and told you not to and then you went to your hearing and told them "I'm the PIC and I'll evacuate if I decide it's the safest course of action" instead of apologizing.
Tell them about work rules and pay being changed at will. Being scheduled to FAR limits.
Tell them about the "6 month employment contract" because you went to training every 6 months and they could basically do anything they wanted to you and the company used training as a weapon against agitators.
Tell them about getting TDY'd out of your base for 6-12 months straight and having no recourse.
Tell them about using AIS for all bidding and scheduling purposes.
Tell them about getting fired because you evacuated a smoke filled MD80 on a taxiway at PIE after someone (allegedly the regional chief pilot) hopped on the ground frequency and told you not to and then you went to your hearing and told them "I'm the PIC and I'll evacuate if I decide it's the safest course of action" instead of apologizing.
Tell them about work rules and pay being changed at will. Being scheduled to FAR limits.
Tell them about the "6 month employment contract" because you went to training every 6 months and they could basically do anything they wanted to you and the company used training as a weapon against agitators.
Tell them about getting TDY'd out of your base for 6-12 months straight and having no recourse.
The ALPA drive has no info for anyone, was not even rumors of one prior to the website becoming known do to the post you linked. It could be anyone that put the site up to stir up things even more. ALPA probaby does not even know about it.
06-19-2024, 07:12 PM
#1896
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 717
A friend sent this to me yesterday. An ALPA card drive? In the middle of negotiations? Are you guys nuts?
https://aerocrewnews.com/aviation-ne...epresentation/
I remember several years ago when a small group looked into this and apparently were told by ALPA organizers that G4 pilots could not go directly from IBT to ALPA because the two signed a no compete clause. Apparently the only way to do it would be to decertify IBT to go non union and then recertify ALPA with another card drive. That sounds extremely dangerous at a place like allegiant where you know Maury is going to put his thumb on the scale and a lot of pilots will listen.
Y'all keep this up and you're going to find yourselves with no contract and no protection. Ask around what it was like working there before the union came on property. Also how much is in that Andrew "negotiations" slush fund? What happens to that money?
Y'all know I'm no fan of Andrew or the IBT but this is the nuclear option. A crappy union is better than no union. Probably not a good time for this.
https://aerocrewnews.com/aviation-ne...epresentation/
I remember several years ago when a small group looked into this and apparently were told by ALPA organizers that G4 pilots could not go directly from IBT to ALPA because the two signed a no compete clause. Apparently the only way to do it would be to decertify IBT to go non union and then recertify ALPA with another card drive. That sounds extremely dangerous at a place like allegiant where you know Maury is going to put his thumb on the scale and a lot of pilots will listen.
Y'all keep this up and you're going to find yourselves with no contract and no protection. Ask around what it was like working there before the union came on property. Also how much is in that Andrew "negotiations" slush fund? What happens to that money?
Y'all know I'm no fan of Andrew or the IBT but this is the nuclear option. A crappy union is better than no union. Probably not a good time for this.
Kalitta went from teamsters to ALPA and there was no boogeyman waiting for them back in 2018 - kalitta management can union bash with the best of them. Kalitta were protected under their cba with teamsters while ALPA bargained their current contract (I think they are back in negotiations now).
If what you say is true about being forced to go non-union and then organize for ALPA is true, does that mean are stuck with teamsters forever??? When would be the “right” time to switch?
06-20-2024, 05:54 AM
#1897
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 18
so when is the right time for it? ALPA was good enough for you APA pilots but not us?
Kalitta went from teamsters to ALPA and there was no boogeyman waiting for them back in 2018 - kalitta management can union bash with the best of them. Kalitta were protected under their cba with teamsters while ALPA bargained their current contract (I think they are back in negotiations now).
If what you say is true about being forced to go non-union and then organize for ALPA is true, does that mean are stuck with teamsters forever??? When would be the “right” time to switch?
Kalitta went from teamsters to ALPA and there was no boogeyman waiting for them back in 2018 - kalitta management can union bash with the best of them. Kalitta were protected under their cba with teamsters while ALPA bargained their current contract (I think they are back in negotiations now).
If what you say is true about being forced to go non-union and then organize for ALPA is true, does that mean are stuck with teamsters forever??? When would be the “right” time to switch?
06-20-2024, 07:18 AM
#1898
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,248
so when is the right time for it? ALPA was good enough for you APA pilots but not us?
Kalitta went from teamsters to ALPA and there was no boogeyman waiting for them back in 2018 - kalitta management can union bash with the best of them. Kalitta were protected under their cba with teamsters while ALPA bargained their current contract (I think they are back in negotiations now).
If what you say is true about being forced to go non-union and then organize for ALPA is true, does that mean are stuck with teamsters forever??? When would be the “right” time to switch?
Kalitta went from teamsters to ALPA and there was no boogeyman waiting for them back in 2018 - kalitta management can union bash with the best of them. Kalitta were protected under their cba with teamsters while ALPA bargained their current contract (I think they are back in negotiations now).
If what you say is true about being forced to go non-union and then organize for ALPA is true, does that mean are stuck with teamsters forever??? When would be the “right” time to switch?
That said, G4 would be well served to go to ALPA but because you can't go directly from IBT to ALPA because of the no compete agreement between the two that becomes very risky. There is no way around that except to decertify IBT and then recertify ALPA as I've been told.
Btw you need to do your research. K9 decertified IBT and went non union and then immediately recertified ALPA. But they were a 200 pilot group and well organized. Not a thousand+ group where 30% or so don't engage at all on union issues and were fine before IBT came in and massive fractures exist within the union leadership.
06-20-2024, 07:24 AM
#1899
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,248
Rip the bandaid off. There's never a good time to do this. Is it really worth the risk of getting another bad contract with crappy workrules before you decide to go with ALPA? Teamsters hasn't performed. They're who stuck you with the current crap you deal with daily. You're current contract was an unorganized cut-and-paste from one of the old Exco's prior airlines. Just move on. Otherwise GU just isn't going to be of much help and you'll be dealing with another subpar (ie bottom of the industry) contract for 4-5 more years. ALPA has its own issues, but the resources are far better than anything provided for by the Teamsters (except for the health insurance).
06-20-2024, 11:16 AM
#1900
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 196
And don't forget that ALPA didn't want Allegiant when the Allegiant pilots approached them around 2012, after the failed drive from before. They said no thanks and IBT was the only group that were willing to work with Allegiant pilots.
Is an attempt for prior players to leave Allegiant pilots stranded without any kind of union before they fully jump ship to another carrier, or are those same players going to try again to put themselves in charge for Allegiant under ALPA?
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