FreshWater

Maybe the contract comparison that the union put out is to blame? It’s a very pretty display. We’re #1.. Lowest paid. Allegiant new hire FOs are and will be the lowest paid major airline FOs in America. We say this but sometimes it doesn’t actually sink in. Allegiant doesn’t hire Air Line Pilots. We hire Ultra Low Cost Pilots.

tailendcharlie

Or maybe it’s finally become common knowledge that the “home every night” promise for prospective applicants carries with it a long list of disclaimers,& once you eliminate that perk, it’s really a job of last resort.

Margaritaville

No it actually isn't. Name some groups that have achieved full retro to Section 6 opening day in the last 20 years. I can't think of any. Most just take a token cash lump sum and call it set.

That's exactly what allegiant was until about 2012 when the growth began.

Allegiant is Great Lakes with big jets and everyone in the industry knows it now. They will always have applicants but they won't be high quality and they will use it as a stepping stone unless they have so many skeletons they can't step. But what finally did Great Lakes in was lack of pilots. It will be the same here if this trend continues.

Inflation is currently 8%. That means we take an 8% pay cut every year this drags on. The union is in left field if they think waiting 3 years is okay.

Exactly. That's why the company put it out. Divide and conquer. Also you're not wrong. The seniors just want the money because they aren't affected by the work rules. The question is if everyone else can outvote them. 50% +1 want work rules? I bet if they put this offer put tomorrow it passes. And the company knows it or they wouldn't have leaked it.

If you go on the Delta page on this site you can see the kind of stuff they're talking about. We aren't even on the same planet. SCA pay rates and 11-15% DC would make us the joke of the industry and keep us firmly on the bottom as the lowest paid airbus pilots in the US. I doubt most pilots who live in base, work and go home every night really care. That's our biggest problem. We will never be a real airline. Like said above we are a boutique side show. Anyone considering coming here better understand what they're signing up for.

​​​​​​​
This. This is the answer. And management is okay with it.

KC135

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaritaville

No it actually isn't. Name some groups that have achieved full retro to Section 6 opening day in the last 20 years. I can't think of any. Most just take a token cash lump sum and call it set.

Yeah I am wrong on that, it has only been partial so mngt still wins.



You make that statement as if there is something our union could do about it. We’ll only get a new TA whenever management decides we will by sending a fair offer. I personally think they want to break the 121 world record of 8 years on an expired contract.

FreshWater

How can the union make management over haul the contract? Management takes their marching orders from MG, not this union or any union. He won’t pay for a comprehensive industry leading contract.

We already went over this as a group, we’re not agreeing to a cash only, no work rules thin contract. Which is the offer from management. That money to be eaten up by inflation is gone, MG has made his decision to not pay for a growth-oriented industry leading pilot contract.

captnate702

I think the Union wants this to last 3-5 years. Everything EXCO has put out and the rumors I’m hearing from negotiating committee is that leadership wants this to last 3-5 years because that gives them more leverage.

That “strategy” is unheard in the history of RLA negotiations but this might be the perfect storm of demand and attrition to make it the right strategy.

It’s certainly risky because Margarita is absolutely right, each year we get an 8% paycut, instead of a 20% raise at DOS plus 4-6-% each year after that. I’m deferring to the EXCO that they know how to read the tea leaves better than I do. Still, intentionally slow playing certainly has risks.

FreshWater

MG sets the pace not the union. We’re averaging two sections agreed upon every 12 months. Divide it out that’s a multi-year process. The union is just not agreeing to a thin no work rule contract.

Imo.

tailendcharlie

I don’t think the EXCO “wants” this to take 3-5 years rather are acknowledging the reality once MG dug in his heels turned away from the growth plan & stopped negotiating in good faith. Unless some kind of corporate transaction intervenes the course is set toward a downsized airline, a likely pilot strike, but eventually, a new CBA that does away with the myriad bs “Allegiant we’re different” work rules and offers industry-standard pay & retirement. And base closings and overnights will be good for this pilot group; it’ll wake up the head-in-the-sand crowd who think being home every night is the holy grail.

tom11011

Agreed, they don't want it. Agreed they are just acknowledging the time and steps it takes to get to arbitration.

Also, many people are concerned about what MG does or doesn't do. He is stepping away as an officer of the company in June I believe. He will be on the Board, and as the largest share holder at 13% I believe, he will be chairman, but I don't see his involvement in the day to day. JR will be at the helm and maybe some things may change, but maybe not. The culture of this company will have to start at the top.

FreshWater

Imo, the strategy the union has put out is negotiating in good faith, i.e. not leaking out information to divide and conquer like management has done. Or, directly soliciting the pilot group outside of the bargaining table like management has and is doing. Or, violating their confidentiality agreement with the negotiating committee.

The company strategically called for a few more negotiating sessions, the union agreed. Only to pass garbage. Don’t know of any other strategy you speak of.