G4slumdod

Might as well get one going. Bad publicity if nothing else.

captnate702

hahahaha I’m sure the NMB would love the strike vote right after the union switches out its entire negotiating for the fourth time this calendar year.

Let’s face it. We basically wasted 3 years of bargaining with no real progress because if AR and the teamsters incompetence. Our current NC and GU just signaled that they want to start over. Is that the right call? Idk. I’m not hearing a lot, but talk of sandboxes and pbs taking so much time is crazy when AR screwed us by NOT wanting to negotiate pbs until he won all the glory in all of these arbitrations - all of which we lost and lost big.

Now that he’s out, we are starting over negotiating pbs. The same pbs we were supposed to be negotiating the last 8 years and now union is telling us they need more years to learn pbs and play with it. Again, I’m not blaming the current NC they were put in a lose-lose situation. But I am blaming AR and the ibt for letting AR run this place like a mob for so long. It has absolutely screwed us in negotiations.

Other thing is that the boomtown economics has passed. ULCCs are getting destroyed, our airline margins are barely profitable. Spirit and frontier might never be profitable again (unless they restructure under Ch11). And hiring has completely slowed, by over 70% at the legacies. Will it pick back up? Sure. But I don’t think we’ll see another hiring spree like we did for another 10-20 years.

Not a great time to negotiate for a 75% raise in total compensation. I blame AR and the ibt for leaving us to rot.

Bitcoin

The airline margins were 6% last quarter. If you exclude the temporary headwinds last quarter would have been at 13% margins. Last year was 11% airline only, which is still one of the highest margins out there. After the headwinds fade (delivery delays, low utilization in peak times, navitaire pricing integration issues) the airline margins will be ridiculously high next year.

HerkDood

So how about the latest company email? Is the company trying to create friction between the union and the pilots by sending that last email? Was the union really unprepared for 3 days of negotiations? Like anything else, I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. It's hard to read between the lines as a new guy.

That being said, I don't really see who wins if this drags on for too long. When industry hiring picks up again, I can't imagine the company wants to be in a position of trying to grow while having an industry-lagging contract.

tailendcharlie

It's at least a starting point for negotiating the big-ticket items. Apparently a lot of pilots didn't read the part where the co. says it's not a final offer & agrees more work needs to be done. It's how bargaining works.

SladeTin

I’m pretty sure everyone saw that. Thing is, if you’re remotely serious about wanting to get this done sooner rather than later, you don’t open with rates that insulting. All it tells me is that there is zero truth to them wanting a deal done. Unless of course it’s an incredibly sh***y one, then they’re all for that. No thanks.

captnate702

I'm not sure either side wants to get a deal done. Union knows it’s negotiating for rates at a terrible time and with zero leverage. Management knows it cannot afford legacy rates while it still has swamp seeker.

IMO both sides are just delaying. If union wanted a deal they wouldn’t be twiddling their thumbs during negotiations. They’re brand new. Robles wasted 3 years of bargaining and now union has to start over but teamsters and GU cannot say they are starting over because they allowed Robles to go rogue.

management doesn’t wanna get a deal done for obvious reasons, the Boeing delay is eating away at the margins and they have too many pilots on property already. The hiring is long gone and not coming back for 5-10 years so why would management want a deal?

pipercub

The company can afford the top pay rates, they just do not want the 20 Percent extra soft pay. It really comes down to they want all the control over the schedules so they "Can be Flexible" Its been the same for years they want to give money and no real rules so the can flex the staffing and schedules around when they want or need. It has always been about scheduling ruls and scope the rest would all fall into place if they new what those looked like. The companys hope was those pay rates and 15% retirement would get enough pilots to put presure on the union to take those and pass on the PBS rules and scope.

SladeTin

If they think those rates would be enough to get people to drop PBS and scope, they really are out of touch. Those rates sucked. Now if they wanted to throw out some ridiculous numbers like adding $100 to those rates, it might get people to balk. Never gonna happen though.

Margaritaville

A friend sent this to me yesterday. An ALPA card drive? In the middle of negotiations? Are you guys nuts?

https://aerocrewnews.com/aviation-ne...epresentation/

I remember several years ago when a small group looked into this and apparently were told by ALPA organizers that G4 pilots could not go directly from IBT to ALPA because the two signed a no compete clause. Apparently the only way to do it would be to decertify IBT to go non union and then recertify ALPA with another card drive. That sounds extremely dangerous at a place like allegiant where you know Maury is going to put his thumb on the scale and a lot of pilots will listen.

Y'all keep this up and you're going to find yourselves with no contract and no protection. Ask around what it was like working there before the union came on property. Also how much is in that Andrew "negotiations" slush fund? What happens to that money?

Y'all know I'm no fan of Andrew or the IBT but this is the nuclear option. A crappy union is better than no union. Probably not a good time for this.