Originally Posted by Smallcheese12

Lets also not kid ourselves. Pay rates north of Sun Country and a 15%DC might reduce the attrition slightly, but it won't attract candidates to come here. Kids in flight schools know Allegiant hates their pilots. This problem is a cultural problem.

Originally Posted by captnate702

KC135 - even if we assume that we accept the standing the offer and the contract fails to stop attrition like management thinks that it will; then that is a downside risk for management not for me. That is there problem. That would be the BEST case scenario for us as a pilot group. If the EXCO thinks that even with new rates and retirement the attrition will continue, then they should accept the offer with a shorter duration so we can all get pay raises while never stopping the attrition. the Company would be begging to open up negotiations again in two years but this time they would be forced to actually take the work rules seriously for once. I think this is pie in the sky stuff because i do think new rates would go a long way to stop the attrition but that is just my opinion (example: suncountry).

Let's assume we accept the offer and get new rates and then start negotiating again in 2024 or 2025 but in the meantime the attrition doesn't stop, how is that worse than having current rates until 2025 or 2026? I don't see how that would be worse than getting no contract at all and still having major attrition? Maybe i'm just not reading the tea leaves...

IMO the risk of accepting a contract now is that we lose the leverage of attrition. If attrition will continue even with new rates, then why would we not take the pay raise and keep the leverage? I don't see it that way, the new rates would absolutely slow a lot of the attrition and i bet the EXCO thinks the same way which is why they are not giving this standing offer any consideration.

Again, this is just based off the rumors i'm hearing and my reading of the tea leaves...

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

Simple solution is part of any CBA is new rates are retroactive to date contract was amendable. July 30, 2021. "Pay me now, or pay me later."

Originally Posted by Be Realistic

Why are Sun Country rates in the discussion? No No No.

Anyone see the post from the new hire last week on FB who told the union they need to get a bump for first year pilots now? Yeah, lets help the company with their self created attrition problem. Not!

We will always leave money on the table be it from not moving to a legacy or to delaying a new contract until we have the work rules or even the text that gives the contract the teeth needed to enforce it. No crappy contract will pass a vote now, the pilots are seeing red for all the **** we have endured from this company. Only an industry contract should even be considered.

Originally Posted by Be Realistic

Anyone see the post from the new hire last week on FB who told the union they need to get a bump for first year pilots now?

Originally Posted by Smallcheese12

Lets also not kid ourselves. Pay rates north of Sun Country and a 15%DC might reduce the attrition slightly, but it won't attract candidates to come here. Kids in flight schools know Allegiant hates their pilots. This problem is a cultural problem. North of Sun Country is still short of what the legacies will become, and lost money on the table for anyone here younger than 35 and anyone in school thinking of coming here. Home every night doesn't mean what it used to, people around the industry know that.

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

Considering the effect of inflation during the next 4+ years of stalling tactics then federal mediation probably a spell of self-help - when we finally do see a TA top CA rates are going need to be in the $400/hr. range. That’ll be industry standard by 2026.

Originally Posted by Proxsys2INOP

Delta guys are running their numbers. They need $380 now to be back at 2004 inflation adjusted rates. An actual 10% raise means they’d have to top out at $418. Add another 10% inflation over the next 5 years. DOS+5 = $460 top out. CaptNate mentioned that we’ll always get the pay up to second ULCC. We all know the second that contract gets signed the company would argue that the frontiers and spirits aren’t ULCCs. Especially with the upcoming merger(s).

Originally Posted by tom11011

I hate to break this to you, but the companies last term sheet has apparently been leaked by someone (many suspect the company has leaked it). From what I have heard the term sheet is very small and only encompasses a few items, ie as many suspected all along they want to throw money at the pilots and forget about the rest. Pay rates are identical to Sun Country with slight variations. Retirement is 11% with a slow escalation to max of 15 after a few years. No work rule fixes and in some cases relaxing of a few of the rules we have now. Basically, the top 300 in the company can benefit because most of the contract doesn't affect them. The bottom 100 plus people who haven't even been hired yet (those who don't know pain yet) will only see the pay scales to be happy.