Contract negotiations
02-25-2023, 05:23 AM
#1461
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,987
I’m not telling anyone what to do. I’m telling prospective new hires that expecting what you have will most likely never happen. I’m here because senior pilots systematically lie to people on here talking about how great it is. They leave out a lot of details about the reality of being junior and what to expect at allegiant.
If someone decides to go after knowing all the facts the so be it. It works for some people. There are a few from my class still on property and they have good reasons to stay. I’m happy they found a good place to hang their hat.
If someone decides to go after knowing all the facts the so be it. It works for some people. There are a few from my class still on property and they have good reasons to stay. I’m happy they found a good place to hang their hat.
I'm here because I'm concerned that prospective pilots and newhires at Allegiant are being lied to and sold a fantasy that they will someday have the great life of home every night where you want to live, fly when and where you want, and take vacation when you want, for 1/4 of a mil a year that the super senior pilots here have and love to brag about.
This travel company is a pyramid scheme. You will only have that life if you got in on the ground floor 10-15 years ago. It's different from other airlines because with a young pilot group there are very few retirements, and the senior folks, who have it so good and are vocally selling this place here to keep the crumbling foundation of their pyramid intact, aren't leaving. Anyone hired today probably won't exceed 30% in the company in their career unless they were hired in their 20s and spend 30+ years here. There is practically zero growth potential here now. It's about to become America's most stagnant airline. You will spend many, many years on the bottom of the pyramid, working under the lowest pay and crappiest work rules in the industry.
The mods have told me they don't like my tone anymore, so I'll make this my last post on the topic.
I left Allegiant well over a year ago to work at a legacy airline with a Florida base not far from my Space Coast home. I have zero regrets. I'll be back to A320 CA in a year or two and make back every penny I lost by leaving and then some. I'll still have 10-ish years left too.
I hope anyone looking at this airline (travel company) reads this sometime in the future and seriously ponders it, not what the recruiters and scared seniors are saying.
Best of luck to you all.
02-25-2023, 08:04 AM
#1462
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 655
Well said.
I'm here because I'm concerned that prospective pilots and newhires at Allegiant are being lied to and sold a fantasy that they will someday have the great life of home every night where you want to live, fly when and where you want, and take vacation when you want, for 1/4 of a mil a year that the super senior pilots here have and love to brag about.
This travel company is a pyramid scheme. You will only have that life if you got in on the ground floor 10-15 years ago. It's different from other airlines because with a young pilot group there are very few retirements, and the senior folks, who have it so good and are vocally selling this place here to keep the crumbling foundation of their pyramid intact, aren't leaving. Anyone hired today probably won't exceed 30% in the company in their career unless they were hired in their 20s and spend 30+ years here. There is practically zero growth potential here now. It's about to become America's most stagnant airline. You will spend many, many years on the bottom of the pyramid, working under the lowest pay and crappiest work rules in the industry.
The mods have told me they don't like my tone anymore, so I'll make this my last post on the topic.
I left Allegiant well over a year ago to work at a legacy airline with a Florida base not far from my Space Coast home. I have zero regrets. I'll be back to A320 CA in a year or two and make back every penny I lost by leaving and then some. I'll still have 10-ish years left too.
I hope anyone looking at this airline (travel company) reads this sometime in the future and seriously ponders it, not what the recruiters and scared seniors are saying.
Best of luck to you all.
I'm here because I'm concerned that prospective pilots and newhires at Allegiant are being lied to and sold a fantasy that they will someday have the great life of home every night where you want to live, fly when and where you want, and take vacation when you want, for 1/4 of a mil a year that the super senior pilots here have and love to brag about.
This travel company is a pyramid scheme. You will only have that life if you got in on the ground floor 10-15 years ago. It's different from other airlines because with a young pilot group there are very few retirements, and the senior folks, who have it so good and are vocally selling this place here to keep the crumbling foundation of their pyramid intact, aren't leaving. Anyone hired today probably won't exceed 30% in the company in their career unless they were hired in their 20s and spend 30+ years here. There is practically zero growth potential here now. It's about to become America's most stagnant airline. You will spend many, many years on the bottom of the pyramid, working under the lowest pay and crappiest work rules in the industry.
The mods have told me they don't like my tone anymore, so I'll make this my last post on the topic.
I left Allegiant well over a year ago to work at a legacy airline with a Florida base not far from my Space Coast home. I have zero regrets. I'll be back to A320 CA in a year or two and make back every penny I lost by leaving and then some. I'll still have 10-ish years left too.
I hope anyone looking at this airline (travel company) reads this sometime in the future and seriously ponders it, not what the recruiters and scared seniors are saying.
Best of luck to you all.
02-25-2023, 08:05 AM
#1463
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 668
Well said.
I'm here because I'm concerned that prospective pilots and newhires at Allegiant are being lied to and sold a fantasy that they will someday have the great life of home every night where you want to live, fly when and where you want, and take vacation when you want, for 1/4 of a mil a year that the super senior pilots here have and love to brag about.
This travel company is a pyramid scheme. You will only have that life if you got in on the ground floor 10-15 years ago. It's different from other airlines because with a young pilot group there are very few retirements, and the senior folks, who have it so good and are vocally selling this place here to keep the crumbling foundation of their pyramid intact, aren't leaving. Anyone hired today probably won't exceed 30% in the company in their career unless they were hired in their 20s and spend 30+ years here. There is practically zero growth potential here now. It's about to become America's most stagnant airline. You will spend many, many years on the bottom of the pyramid, working under the lowest pay and crappiest work rules in the industry.
The mods have told me they don't like my tone anymore, so I'll make this my last post on the topic.
I left Allegiant well over a year ago to work at a legacy airline with a Florida base not far from my Space Coast home. I have zero regrets. I'll be back to A320 CA in a year or two and make back every penny I lost by leaving and then some. I'll still have 10-ish years left too.
I hope anyone looking at this airline (travel company) reads this sometime in the future and seriously ponders it, not what the recruiters and scared seniors are saying.
Best of luck to you all.
I'm here because I'm concerned that prospective pilots and newhires at Allegiant are being lied to and sold a fantasy that they will someday have the great life of home every night where you want to live, fly when and where you want, and take vacation when you want, for 1/4 of a mil a year that the super senior pilots here have and love to brag about.
This travel company is a pyramid scheme. You will only have that life if you got in on the ground floor 10-15 years ago. It's different from other airlines because with a young pilot group there are very few retirements, and the senior folks, who have it so good and are vocally selling this place here to keep the crumbling foundation of their pyramid intact, aren't leaving. Anyone hired today probably won't exceed 30% in the company in their career unless they were hired in their 20s and spend 30+ years here. There is practically zero growth potential here now. It's about to become America's most stagnant airline. You will spend many, many years on the bottom of the pyramid, working under the lowest pay and crappiest work rules in the industry.
The mods have told me they don't like my tone anymore, so I'll make this my last post on the topic.
I left Allegiant well over a year ago to work at a legacy airline with a Florida base not far from my Space Coast home. I have zero regrets. I'll be back to A320 CA in a year or two and make back every penny I lost by leaving and then some. I'll still have 10-ish years left too.
I hope anyone looking at this airline (travel company) reads this sometime in the future and seriously ponders it, not what the recruiters and scared seniors are saying.
Best of luck to you all.
You are right, you were never gonna get the good Allegiant schedule sticking in Florida and I have been adamant to anyone who will listen that FL is the worst place to be based if you’re not very senior (see any of my posts about FL reserves and the abuse they get). It seems most on here have been very clear, repeatedly, that to get the good Allegiant qol you have to be willing to move to where the opportunities are.
I know several people that are below 50% seniority that love their life at Allegiant and are living in smaller bases. DSM, TYS, GRR, ATW, even ABE and FNT are not for everybody, but some people believe it or not are not dying to live in FL or the LAS/IWA desert. For those people, they come they fly and they go home and forget about work.
If you have your sights set on FL then this place is gonna very different than if you want to live in a smaller Midwest area.
I hope you do get that 320 CA seat back, though AA certainly has their obstacles over the next few years. No airline is insulated from a topsy-turvy economy (though WN and DL are positioned better than the rest imo) so hopefully you have some profitable years before retirement. I’ll miss busting your chops Marg, I hope you’ll come back and slum it with us on APC in the future.
02-25-2023, 08:50 PM
#1464
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2022
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 53
Well said.
I'm here because I'm concerned that prospective pilots and newhires at Allegiant are being lied to and sold a fantasy that they will someday have the great life of home every night where you want to live, fly when and where you want, and take vacation when you want, for 1/4 of a mil a year that the super senior pilots here have and love to brag about.
This travel company is a pyramid scheme. You will only have that life if you got in on the ground floor 10-15 years ago. It's different from other airlines because with a young pilot group there are very few retirements, and the senior folks, who have it so good and are vocally selling this place here to keep the crumbling foundation of their pyramid intact, aren't leaving. Anyone hired today probably won't exceed 30% in the company in their career unless they were hired in their 20s and spend 30+ years here. There is practically zero growth potential here now. It's about to become America's most stagnant airline. You will spend many, many years on the bottom of the pyramid, working under the lowest pay and crappiest work rules in the industry.
The mods have told me they don't like my tone anymore, so I'll make this my last post on the topic.
I left Allegiant well over a year ago to work at a legacy airline with a Florida base not far from my Space Coast home. I have zero regrets. I'll be back to A320 CA in a year or two and make back every penny I lost by leaving and then some. I'll still have 10-ish years left too.
I hope anyone looking at this airline (travel company) reads this sometime in the future and seriously ponders it, not what the recruiters and scared seniors are saying.
Best of luck to you all.
I'm here because I'm concerned that prospective pilots and newhires at Allegiant are being lied to and sold a fantasy that they will someday have the great life of home every night where you want to live, fly when and where you want, and take vacation when you want, for 1/4 of a mil a year that the super senior pilots here have and love to brag about.
This travel company is a pyramid scheme. You will only have that life if you got in on the ground floor 10-15 years ago. It's different from other airlines because with a young pilot group there are very few retirements, and the senior folks, who have it so good and are vocally selling this place here to keep the crumbling foundation of their pyramid intact, aren't leaving. Anyone hired today probably won't exceed 30% in the company in their career unless they were hired in their 20s and spend 30+ years here. There is practically zero growth potential here now. It's about to become America's most stagnant airline. You will spend many, many years on the bottom of the pyramid, working under the lowest pay and crappiest work rules in the industry.
The mods have told me they don't like my tone anymore, so I'll make this my last post on the topic.
I left Allegiant well over a year ago to work at a legacy airline with a Florida base not far from my Space Coast home. I have zero regrets. I'll be back to A320 CA in a year or two and make back every penny I lost by leaving and then some. I'll still have 10-ish years left too.
I hope anyone looking at this airline (travel company) reads this sometime in the future and seriously ponders it, not what the recruiters and scared seniors are saying.
Best of luck to you all.
All BS aside Margi, always enjoy giving each other a hard time on here. First round is on me if we cross paths out east. Come visit with us soon!
02-25-2023, 08:53 PM
#1465
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2022
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 53
Glad to see you are so happy at AA that you’ve still got time to come slum it with us.
You are right, you were never gonna get the good Allegiant schedule sticking in Florida and I have been adamant to anyone who will listen that FL is the worst place to be based if you’re not very senior (see any of my posts about FL reserves and the abuse they get). It seems most on here have been very clear, repeatedly, that to get the good Allegiant qol you have to be willing to move to where the opportunities are.
I know several people that are below 50% seniority that love their life at Allegiant and are living in smaller bases. DSM, TYS, GRR, ATW, even ABE and FNT are not for everybody, but some people believe it or not are not dying to live in FL or the LAS/IWA desert. For those people, they come they fly and they go home and forget about work.
If you have your sights set on FL then this place is gonna very different than if you want to live in a smaller Midwest area.
I hope you do get that 320 CA seat back, though AA certainly has their obstacles over the next few years. No airline is insulated from a topsy-turvy economy (though WN and DL are positioned better than the rest imo) so hopefully you have some profitable years before retirement. I’ll miss busting your chops Marg, I hope you’ll come back and slum it with us on APC in the future.
You are right, you were never gonna get the good Allegiant schedule sticking in Florida and I have been adamant to anyone who will listen that FL is the worst place to be based if you’re not very senior (see any of my posts about FL reserves and the abuse they get). It seems most on here have been very clear, repeatedly, that to get the good Allegiant qol you have to be willing to move to where the opportunities are.
I know several people that are below 50% seniority that love their life at Allegiant and are living in smaller bases. DSM, TYS, GRR, ATW, even ABE and FNT are not for everybody, but some people believe it or not are not dying to live in FL or the LAS/IWA desert. For those people, they come they fly and they go home and forget about work.
If you have your sights set on FL then this place is gonna very different than if you want to live in a smaller Midwest area.
I hope you do get that 320 CA seat back, though AA certainly has their obstacles over the next few years. No airline is insulated from a topsy-turvy economy (though WN and DL are positioned better than the rest imo) so hopefully you have some profitable years before retirement. I’ll miss busting your chops Marg, I hope you’ll come back and slum it with us on APC in the future.
If you're on the outside looking in and speculating a career here, know that the truth lies somewhere in the middle between the extremes on here and the extremes the company will sell. Seek out some allegiant drivers on FB, we're a friendly group.
02-26-2023, 08:50 AM
#1466
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,965
I agree with the stagnation in Florida and IWA, LAS looks like 10-15 years and the top 50% of CA's will be gone and the remainder of the country will be the revolving door aside from the top 2 seats in base. It's truly a gamble, the same stuff was said to pilots who left for this little FAT startup. The fact of the matter is none of us know where we'll be when the music stops. You could be here, you could be in indoc for wide bodies or you could be sitting on a beach retired. Once it stops, the only winners are those who survive the furlough cut that does not know the difference between ULCC or Legacy.
All BS aside Margi, always enjoy giving each other a hard time on here. First round is on me if we cross paths out east. Come visit with us soon!
All BS aside Margi, always enjoy giving each other a hard time on here. First round is on me if we cross paths out east. Come visit with us soon!
02-26-2023, 01:35 PM
#1467
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 668
All joking aside, this is not a traditional airline or a place to start a career if you have 30 years ahead of you. Now if you have a side business and need paid healthcare and are looking for some hobby flying 8 days a month and don't mind sitting as senior FO, this is a great place.
I’m also not just talking about AR, of course he’s going to stay here and maximize the fiefdom he’s built. But there are several that have close to three decades of flying left that are committed to staying here and believe this is still a career airline (in private).
Now of course they’ll tell everybody to leave and look elsewhere because that’s the schtick right now. But look at their actions. EV, JA, RJ, RF, KS, just to name a few. Three of them are at all the negotiations. RF is technically #2 in the union and RJ is a trustee and in the know. They all have 30-35 years left of flying and they are staying put. They also have the most info on negotiations and what to expect from the next contract. Why would they all be committed to staying for 30+years?
They have the most info about negotiations and what management is willing to do. And they are choosing to stay and get us the industry contract we deserve. That should give us all some confidence in the long term opportunity at Allegiant.
02-26-2023, 02:07 PM
#1468
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,965
I agree there is some uncertainty to commit for 30 years, but, I am surprised at how young our NC and Exco are and they are all committed to staying here for the next 25-35 years. That should say something? They’re actions speak louder than their words imo.
I’m also not just talking about AR, of course he’s going to stay here and maximize the fiefdom he’s built. But there are several that have close to three decades of flying left that are committed to staying here and believe this is still a career airline (in private).
Now of course they’ll tell everybody to leave and look elsewhere because that’s the schtick right now. But look at their actions. EV, JA, RJ, RF, KS, just to name a few. Three of them are at all the negotiations. RF is technically #2 in the union and RJ is a trustee and in the know. They all have 30-35 years left of flying and they are staying put. They also have the most info on negotiations and what to expect from the next contract. Why would they all be committed to staying for 30+years?
They have the most info about negotiations and what management is willing to do. And they are choosing to stay and get us the industry contract we deserve. That should give us all some confidence in the long term opportunity at Allegiant.
I’m also not just talking about AR, of course he’s going to stay here and maximize the fiefdom he’s built. But there are several that have close to three decades of flying left that are committed to staying here and believe this is still a career airline (in private).
Now of course they’ll tell everybody to leave and look elsewhere because that’s the schtick right now. But look at their actions. EV, JA, RJ, RF, KS, just to name a few. Three of them are at all the negotiations. RF is technically #2 in the union and RJ is a trustee and in the know. They all have 30-35 years left of flying and they are staying put. They also have the most info on negotiations and what to expect from the next contract. Why would they all be committed to staying for 30+years?
They have the most info about negotiations and what management is willing to do. And they are choosing to stay and get us the industry contract we deserve. That should give us all some confidence in the long term opportunity at Allegiant.
02-26-2023, 03:21 PM
#1469
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 668
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