SladeTin

You definitely made the right decision, for multiple reasons. The contract is at best years away, and honestly I’m not sure one will come at all anymore. I think they have enough people that won’t leave no matter what, and they are going to use the FO seat as a revolving door to keep a warm body in the seat. The airline will shrink a bit, and several of the smaller bases will close. Management is fine with all of this. The 737 will replace the Airbus and we’ll eventually have a fleet total of around 100 or so aircraft. Their growth plans are for Viva with cheap Mexican labor. They don’t give a crap about growing domestic ops, and they certainly don’t care about pilots leaving this airline. That much is obvious. I’d love to be proven wrong, but I’m confident at this point that I won’t be.

KC135

Sorry to hear Moose, this place really could have been one of the top places to work but unfortunately Slade is correct. The unethical direction the company has taken has pushed a lot to leave or not join. The unfair competitive advantage the Viva deal gives will bring effortless high margins with almost no operating cost other than running the website with minimal customer service. The plans to use the airline’s balance sheet to open 2 more hotels and 8 restaurants while delaying the TA was the final push for a lot of those that were on the fence. They need the current CBA, which has the worst scope in the industry including all regionals, to remain in effect as long as possible.

tom11011

When you get into a crash caused by the driver who fell asleep with weed in his system, this handy website will be needed to help you calculate your pennies on the dollar paycheck from workers comp.

https://www.myfloridacfo.com/divisio...ed-worker-faqs

tom11011

There's a lot of truth in what you are saying, but you and many others view the problems here through the eyes of a career pilot with career pilot expectations. But there are pilots here who view Allegiant as more of a part time job or just some hobby flying. It's a great way to maintain health benefits, fly 5-10 days per month for a little fun, and then spend the rest of the month making money with your business or side hustle. If you are not in the top 300 or so pilots, this can be accomplished by just staying a senior FO and having your schedule of choice. Just something to think about, if you just want to be part time, its not so bad.

Margaritaville

Jeez, it's almost like I predicted all this over a year ago, and everyone told me I was a stupid conspiracy theorist with an ax to grind.

Naw, I'm just a dude who's career has been through the wringer, and I've seen it all before. I used to love my job here. It was easy and made good money for little work compared to real airlines. But right about the time Jude left for SCA and Allegiant corporate decided they would rather go back to being a "travel company" than an airline, this place started to decline. Really, the shrinking began when we didn't hire for almost 2 years in 2017-19 when everyone else was hiring, we were stagnant. Then the wild card of covid, which they actually kept their heads above the water with and showed potential. Then about 2021 the wheels fell off with constant meltdowns, crap show operations and big attrition. Management responded by saying they don't care then brazenly doubling down on resorts, forming a partnership with the crappiest airline in Mexico, and flipping off the union and pilots. The writing is all over the wall guys. But still nobody wants to listen or accept it.

Yeah, they've got enough devout lifers here who have the seniority to keep the left seat in their base. That's probably 200-300 pilots. As said above, the FOs will be a revolving door. They'll gradually take the first 50 firm 737s, gradually park the Airbi, and maybe take 10 more 737s later, then sell off the options on the rest. I see a 60 airplane fleet, 5-7 bases. They'll finish the resort in PGD, buy a few more defunct properties in the US and convert them (Daytona Beach? Orlando? Destin?). They'll build a few resorts in Mexico, and Viva will come into Allegiant cities to fly the people there. They'll still offer Vegas and Orlando vacation packages like the old days. Mexico vacations with deals so cheap nobody will care they're on a crappy Mexican airline.

Travel is our deal!

At the beginning of the covid crisis, Maury sent out a late in the day mass email where you could almost hear the ice clinking in the glass as you read it. He waxed poetically about rolling the company back to 2010 with about 500 pilots. Shrinking to profitability and getting back to the basics of what Allegiant Travel was always good at. A lot of people blew that off and forgot about it but better foreshadowing of future management moves has never been given. You're now seeing the game plan play out. The union and the pilot group have been nothing but naive participants in this process, falling for the old tricks and playing right into their hands.

The company will survive and the senior will still have flying jobs at home. Thew newhire FOs will come for a type and to skip the regionals, spend a year or two, then move on. It's the middle 60% here who will feel the brunt of the cutbacks. Junior CAs will get downgraded or displaced to the right seat. Senior FOs will become junior or get displaced and experience the suck that is juniority here. Meanwhile, the biggest hiring wave in their careers will have passed them by and they'll wake up in their 50s and wonder where their career went.

But I know. I'm wasting my bandwidth. Everyone has made up their mind and nobody wants to hear ol' Margaritaville spread doom and gloom again. Carry on, and best of luck in your choice.

JediCheese

Downgrades will be the kiss of death. You really think a junior CA that uprooted their life to live in ATW or DSM is going to be willing to get pushed back to FO at some large base? I saw it at my regional when we were transitioning fleets, they had to end up paying seniorish FOs that were about to upgrade and junior CAs that were being forcibly downgraded as captains to keep them around as the downgrades began. There is zero percent that the union agrees to that as a temporary measure to help the company.

They won't pay for the ATP written test for well qualified individuals (outside military guys who are likely dialed in enough to know to GTFO as soon as they are typed and move elsewhere).

They're going after Australians/Chileans/Singaporeans which is going to backfire hilariously. Good luck fighting all the tech companies for H1B visas and the Australians have zero incentive to stay at Allegiant vs going to Asia with an A320 type rating and making crazy money or going to another LCC that picks up Australians and pays better. Meet up with a (now) F9 Aussie that I used to fly with at the regionals and he's happy with the $100 an hour pay there and the E3 visa sponsorship vs the regional we were at that was willing to sponsor Australians for a GREEN CARD in return for a 2 year commitment.

I'll point out the basic math on our situation for those already here. They say we're going to have 25% attrition in the recent investor call and we have 1000 pilots. That means we're going to lose 250 pilots this year. There are 12 months, 250/12 ≈ 20. Think we can fill a newhire class with 20 pilots every month to stay the same size?

tailendcharlie

And we’re currently losing more than that plus 14 CA’s so far that take 2 pilots to replace. If it continues at that pace it’s inevitable what will happen. Shrink to profitability let Viva grow & become a profit center why pay Allegiant pilots industry standard rates?

JediCheese

A CA requires two training cycles vs a single training cycle for a FO when they leave. But if you want to stay the same size, you can just hire a single pilot to replace that CA.

You need to hire two pilots to make a new CA spot. If a CA leaves and you are shrinking, you are now surplus a FO! That shrinking math helps the company stay out of death spiral but it only lasts so long. They'd rather CAs leave than FOs leave right now despite the training churn.

Retired Pilot

Jedicheese, you nailed it!

Captainbfv

Sounds like you shoul've left then. Man, you sound like a miserable ***t.

Sounds like you made your decision to stay. What was it age? DUI? Lack of interviewing skills? Whatever it was, make your peace with it man. I mean according to you, you've been here for a while and you say "Why would anyone come to this sinking ship with such a toxic management?". But I would as, who in their right state of mind would stay here so many years before the contract was even a thing? I mean you really would have to be demented, be unhireable, or just couldn't make a move during the times of INDUSTRY stagnation. Because before there was even a crappy CBA, this place was a subpar employer were you had a gun to the back of your head every single day, flying *******ty airplanes, for super ********ty pay. Yet according to you, you were here.
I'm not gonna be like Capt. FartSkittles here and say that "how dare you criticize Allegiant!" or that you're angry because you didn't get your Delta +10, just be happy because you're home every night. This place has its problems, and this management is something else. We are in a difficult position, but so does every other LLC, ULCC, Regional and Start up.

It sounds like you need a hug, pad on the back, or acknowledgement about "calling" it a year ago or whenever. You're not coming off as smart or wise, you're coming off as absolutely bitter and disgruntled. It appears that you believe that by just being doom and gloom (keeping it real) you're gonna get some satisfaction in sticking it to Allegiant.

Many of us, inclusing my self have said in the past that this place works if you live in base, but it also comes at a price. The price is current stagnation, TDY's and of course our sub par CBA. Many have left, others will, and many more of us could leave and we might, but not just yet. Why? Because it's not that simple after "investing" so many years, settling down and making a life for ourselves and family at our current bases. On my end my wife, and my wife alone knows where I currently stand, and where I have drawn the line. Delaying my departure from this place has cost me money and seniority elsewhere, but of course I have to get hired first. IF, and WHEN I decide to pull the plug I will have to live with my decisions. Hell! I might try to leave and find my self like you, in a "sinking ship". I just pray that I don't turn into such a miserable person.

Yet, I, like many still believe that something good will come in due time. Wether it's a good (industry standard) contract, or just the right push finally click APPLY elsewhere. Even then, for all I know I might get stuck here with you and others, or decide to go back to flying rich people around. Telling people to just not come here because "I" hate it so much doesn't help us as a whole, or doesn't hurt Management enough to bend the knee.
This is the perfect time for people to get their foot into the Legacies and hopefully have a long fruitful career. And for the rest of us chumps to obtain something palatable for the years we have left.

Just get a hobbie, a life partner or a pet. Whatever can let you finish you last "miserable" years here happily.

Cheers