Originally Posted by captnate702

What industry standard work rules do you want? because when this comes up, not a single pilot i speak to has said TAFB rig, or min duty pay, etc. What I hear is day trips must be guaranteed and more protection for reserves. Of the 25 or so pilots i have communicated with (via emails, text threads, training, etc.) not a single one has mentioned the "industry standard" work rules that the legacies have - they all want day trips to never go away (me included).

The most important things in this contract to me (and nearly every other pilot i speak with) are rates/retirement, LTD, and guarantee of day trips. The day trips is the work rule that is holding this place together at the moment. I cannot think of a single reason why any pilot would come here or stay here (assuming they have options) apart from the day trips. Of all the work rules management and the union like to talk about, day trips is the one that gets talked about the least. Management had their head in the sand when they sent out that mailer without the talking about day trips - they should know there is no other reason to be here.

I know my friends sitting reserve in FL must get reserve protections as well, the abuse they take is absurd - at a minimum they should be paid adequately. At least they will get paid in full for their LL deadheads but they need more than just money to put up with all that crap.

I don't understand why AR is not pounding this drum instead of unstack. Know your audience AR: we are only here because we don't have other options or because we want day trips/sleep in our bed at night. Please ppl, feel free to chime but why are you here if not for the day trips? what else does this place have to offer besides day trips?

I honestly cannot think of anything and I haven't heard an answer from anybody else i've asked this question to...

Originally Posted by captnate702

What industry standard work rules do you want? because when this comes up, not a single pilot i speak to has said TAFB rig, or min duty pay, etc. What I hear is day trips must be guaranteed and more protection for reserves. Of the 25 or so pilots i have communicated with (via emails, text threads, training, etc.) not a single one has mentioned the "industry standard" work rules that the legacies have - they all want day trips to never go away (me included).

The most important things in this contract to me (and nearly every other pilot i speak with) are rates/retirement, LTD, and guarantee of day trips. The day trips is the work rule that is holding this place together at the moment. I cannot think of a single reason why any pilot would come here or stay here (assuming they have options) apart from the day trips. Of all the work rules management and the union like to talk about, day trips is the one that gets talked about the least. Management had their head in the sand when they sent out that mailer without the talking about day trips - they should know there is no other reason to be here.

I know my friends sitting reserve in FL must get reserve protections as well, the abuse they take is absurd - at a minimum they should be paid adequately. At least they will get paid in full for their LL deadheads but they need more than just money to put up with all that crap.

I don't understand why AR is not pounding this drum instead of unstack. Know your audience AR: we are only here because we don't have other options or because we want day trips/sleep in our bed at night. Please ppl, feel free to chime but why are you here if not for the day trips? what else does this place have to offer besides day trips?

I honestly cannot think of anything and I haven't heard an answer from anybody else i've asked this question to...

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

These guys all think they broke the code - they get to fly airliners without living the airline pilot lifestyle. And it can be a great QOL, no doubt about it. The mistake is not appreciating this as a window of time that will surely evolve or end - basing your entire 3 decades’ career on believing you’ll always be doing day trips out of Bellingham. And being willing to let the company sell you a “guarantee” piece of swampland.

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

The ironic thing is that improving the items mentioned - TAFB, duty rigs, min day pay & other provisions that sorely lag industry standard - will do nothing to discourage the continuation of day trips because they’re all hard time - no soft time anyway. The legacy airline provisions exist primarily to protect a pilots’ pay on muti-day pairings. Delta Airlines duty rigs wouldn’t change the way we get paid for day trips unless it’s something ridiculous like a LAS-SNA turn and that has to change regardless.

Originally Posted by Squeakygreaser

Yeah I'm not sure what he means when he says guarantee day trips. All you can do is have a higher min pay per day based on the length of the trip, or some type of graduated tafb rig. A guarantee doesn't really mean anything without some type of financial incentive.

Originally Posted by captnate702

What industry standard work rules do you want? because when this comes up, not a single pilot i speak to has said TAFB rig, or min duty pay, etc. What I hear is day trips must be guaranteed and more protection for reserves. Of the 25 or so pilots i have communicated with (via emails, text threads, training, etc.) not a single one has mentioned the "industry standard" work rules that the legacies have - they all want day trips to never go away (me included).

The most important things in this contract to me (and nearly every other pilot i speak with) are rates/retirement, LTD, and guarantee of day trips. The day trips is the work rule that is holding this place together at the moment. I cannot think of a single reason why any pilot would come here or stay here (assuming they have options) apart from the day trips. Of all the work rules management and the union like to talk about, day trips is the one that gets talked about the least. Management had their head in the sand when they sent out that mailer without the talking about day trips - they should know there is no other reason to be here.

I know my friends sitting reserve in FL must get reserve protections as well, the abuse they take is absurd - at a minimum they should be paid adequately. At least they will get paid in full for their LL deadheads but they need more than just money to put up with all that crap.

I don't understand why AR is not pounding this drum instead of unstack. Know your audience AR: we are only here because we don't have other options or because we want day trips/sleep in our bed at night. Please ppl, feel free to chime but why are you here if not for the day trips? what else does this place have to offer besides day trips?

I honestly cannot think of anything and I haven't heard an answer from anybody else i've asked this question to...

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

The company is never going to paint itself into a corner and allow the pilots’ contract to dictate macro strategy. And they shouldn’t - but would anyone honestly trust them if they did offer such a “guarantee?”

The truth is the company will operate the airline as they see fit and conditions are changing. AR is not going to waste union time and money going down some rabbit hole that is pure foolishness anyway.

Originally Posted by akulahunter

Other than agreeing with Marg (SMH) about the whole, whopping 25 people being woefully inadequate to judge the pilot group (hint, about 300 would be needed to ensure a representative sample), the biggest problem with what you said is that the company refuses to do any of the things you listed. Specifically, they have been adamant about not guaranteeing any percentage of day trips AND they have been just as adamant about not giving the pilots LTD. I'll ignore the fact that the other issues you mentioned (i.e. Min Day) are pretty significant for a large portion of the airline, but the ones that YOU said were YOUR most important items are things the company refuses to move on. In the words of our fearless leader "Come on Maaan!"

You and your 25 buddies need to schedule another lunch with Uncle M and let him know nothing is going forward without LTD and some rules that make this place livable.

To be fair though, I don't think they will go away from the day trips (at least not to a significant extent). That would be the one thing that would actually cause people to get off of their rears and head for the door. There can't be more than 100-200 pilots here that would stay if we went to 4-5 day trips.