Contract negotiations
01-06-2023, 12:59 PM
#1111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 668
Have you read the rates? I have. The rates are miles apart. $30 plus on JB proposal, and there is no snap up, no 15% or 16% direct contribution. Miles to go.
I acknowledge, what I wrote was not the full picture. I thought it was clearer, maybe just in my head, that at some point negotiations would continue, but they will stop in the current form, that is without the NMB mediator there. No more weekly sit downs with Maury to try to hammer out a quick deal. That isn't going to continue. I'll try to be clearer next time.
I acknowledge, what I wrote was not the full picture. I thought it was clearer, maybe just in my head, that at some point negotiations would continue, but they will stop in the current form, that is without the NMB mediator there. No more weekly sit downs with Maury to try to hammer out a quick deal. That isn't going to continue. I'll try to be clearer next time.
Biggest thing missing from the mailer imo is no guarantee that day trips will continue and LTD.
I don't think the rates are miles apart - if anything the rates are the closest thing in the mailer to "industry standard". The DC is 13/14/15, that is not miles apart - it doesn't hurt anyone to admit that not everything is "planets apart". Let's all be grown ups, its okay to acknowledge that the last two years weren't a total waste.
Spirit is about to agree to rates lower than what is being offered in the mailer and in front of the NMB what Spirit and Suncountry do is gonna matter a whole lot more than what Delta and JetBlue do - its possible the mediator we get hasn't even heard of allegiant. my concern with going to the NMB is that they will lump us in with Suncountry, NK, F9, Avelo and Breeze as opposed to B6, Alaska and the big 4. having talked a lot to people at the table from the initial contract negotiations, NMB never took it seriously when we compared ourselves to legacy carriers - especially because it was our first contract. maybe it will be different this time around, but those guys had a rough time getting anything close to the legacies and we all know that is what we mean when we say "industry standard".
01-06-2023, 01:09 PM
#1112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 668
When i asked a union rep why Hegland was involved if he negotiated our first turd of a contract i was told: "he started as a trustee but now he's only there as a consultant. he doesn't have any say on what we put in the passes."
Dubinsky is the economist we hired to cost the contract i haven't heard of him being involved at all in negotiations.
01-06-2023, 10:14 PM
#1113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Captain for Skyhawks
Posts: 482
Gotcha. I thought you had heard something from AR or maybe i missed something and that AR was going to stop negotiating which is the equivalent to "take his ball and go home" and the NMB would probably not like that either. If AR is only going to negotiate with NMB present then that seems like the professional, savvy play.
Biggest thing missing from the mailer imo is no guarantee that day trips will continue and LTD.
I don't think the rates are miles apart - if anything the rates are the closest thing in the mailer to "industry standard". The DC is 13/14/15, that is not miles apart - it doesn't hurt anyone to admit that not everything is "planets apart". Let's all be grown ups, its okay to acknowledge that the last two years weren't a total waste.
Spirit is about to agree to rates lower than what is being offered in the mailer and in front of the NMB what Spirit and Suncountry do is gonna matter a whole lot more than what Delta and JetBlue do - its possible the mediator we get hasn't even heard of allegiant. my concern with going to the NMB is that they will lump us in with Suncountry, NK, F9, Avelo and Breeze as opposed to B6, Alaska and the big 4. having talked a lot to people at the table from the initial contract negotiations, NMB never took it seriously when we compared ourselves to legacy carriers - especially because it was our first contract. maybe it will be different this time around, but those guys had a rough time getting anything close to the legacies and we all know that is what we mean when we say "industry standard".
Biggest thing missing from the mailer imo is no guarantee that day trips will continue and LTD.
I don't think the rates are miles apart - if anything the rates are the closest thing in the mailer to "industry standard". The DC is 13/14/15, that is not miles apart - it doesn't hurt anyone to admit that not everything is "planets apart". Let's all be grown ups, its okay to acknowledge that the last two years weren't a total waste.
Spirit is about to agree to rates lower than what is being offered in the mailer and in front of the NMB what Spirit and Suncountry do is gonna matter a whole lot more than what Delta and JetBlue do - its possible the mediator we get hasn't even heard of allegiant. my concern with going to the NMB is that they will lump us in with Suncountry, NK, F9, Avelo and Breeze as opposed to B6, Alaska and the big 4. having talked a lot to people at the table from the initial contract negotiations, NMB never took it seriously when we compared ourselves to legacy carriers - especially because it was our first contract. maybe it will be different this time around, but those guys had a rough time getting anything close to the legacies and we all know that is what we mean when we say "industry standard".
your mental. Spirits not going to say yes to the rates when jetblue just got better rates. Then when they merge they will have jet blue rates Anyways. If you can’t see the shenanigans the company is playing by reading between the line and by not showing specific verbiage then you haven’t been in this industry long enough. For example the crappy deadhead pay only matters after more than 1 hour. As others have said no long term disability with pilot medial protection, no min day, no snap up clause, no corrections on a bidding system that was supposed to be done years ago, 15 minutes extra call out for reserve when everywhere else is 2 hours or more, and many more sewage verbiage that the company will change their mind and interpret in their own way. The company is on a life raft with a carrot on a stick to keep you on the sinking boat.
Didn’t allegiant have better pay rates than delta in the first contract? How’s that not comparable.
01-07-2023, 07:18 AM
#1115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 927
Anyone with an understanding of the history of airline labor relations who paid any attention to repeated statements by AR on the likely timeline
of negotiations is unsurprised. The fact we are relatively early-on in a multi-year process should not be a sudden revelation based on the past weeks’ events.
Wishing this was over, urging the union to play ball, is not going to get the results the majority said they wanted. This will get done when management deems it too painful not to get it done. Probably during a 30-day cooling off period or shortly after. Maybe sooner if a max-exodus really does materialize.
of negotiations is unsurprised. The fact we are relatively early-on in a multi-year process should not be a sudden revelation based on the past weeks’ events.
Wishing this was over, urging the union to play ball, is not going to get the results the majority said they wanted. This will get done when management deems it too painful not to get it done. Probably during a 30-day cooling off period or shortly after. Maybe sooner if a max-exodus really does materialize.
01-07-2023, 07:49 AM
#1116
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,987
Rick used to suck around with Duane Woerth at ALPA national during the late 2000s. Duane was trying to get him a position at National. Rick was an abrasive mf. Kind of "old man yells at cloud" boomer type. Nobody wanted him around.
Guess that's how he ended up working for King Andrew lol. Ouch.
01-07-2023, 08:57 AM
#1117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: A-320
Posts: 680
Anyone with an understanding of the history of airline labor relations who paid any attention to repeated statements by AR on the likely timeline
of negotiations is unsurprised. The fact we are relatively early-on in a multi-year process should not be a sudden revelation based on the past weeks’ events.
Wishing this was over, urging the union to play ball, is not going to get the results the majority said they wanted. This will get done when management deems it too painful not to get it done. Probably during a 30-day cooling off period or shortly after. Maybe sooner if a max-exodus really does materialize.
of negotiations is unsurprised. The fact we are relatively early-on in a multi-year process should not be a sudden revelation based on the past weeks’ events.
Wishing this was over, urging the union to play ball, is not going to get the results the majority said they wanted. This will get done when management deems it too painful not to get it done. Probably during a 30-day cooling off period or shortly after. Maybe sooner if a max-exodus really does materialize.
01-07-2023, 09:24 AM
#1118
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 69
01-07-2023, 09:46 AM
#1119
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,987
Yeah, but only 3/4s of G4 pilots will actually leave. So the company has that going for them. Which is nice.
01-07-2023, 01:23 PM
#1120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 213
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