A220s?
10-27-2021, 10:08 AM
#22
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Plus, I feel like Breeze is aiming for a slightly different market than ULCCs with its new A220s (the used E190/195s may be another story). Check out the premium seats and nice cabins likely to be used on longer, transcon A220 flights which is not Allegiant’s model:
https://simpleflying.com/breeze-airb...-300-interior/
This cabin seems a lot nicer than what you find on SWA, Spirit and even some legacy transcon flights.
10-27-2021, 01:49 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 10
What we’re being told in training by multiple parties is there are three likely scenarios in play. (to be decided/announced tentatively early december)
1. Buy more used 320s. They only want nice/well kept ones like Alaskas; don’t want the sprit/frontier ones. Interested in 321s or Neos, but wait list is too long.
2. Replace 319s with 220s.
3. Gradually transition entire fleet to 737’s, specifically the 737 MAX 7.
For options 2&3, they will have the first airplanes delivered 18 months from now.
1. Buy more used 320s. They only want nice/well kept ones like Alaskas; don’t want the sprit/frontier ones. Interested in 321s or Neos, but wait list is too long.
2. Replace 319s with 220s.
3. Gradually transition entire fleet to 737’s, specifically the 737 MAX 7.
For options 2&3, they will have the first airplanes delivered 18 months from now.
10-27-2021, 01:55 PM
#24
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Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,025
What we’re being told in training by multiple parties is there are three likely scenarios in play. (to be decided/announced tentatively early december)
1. Buy more used 320s. They only want nice/well kept ones like Alaskas; don’t want the sprit/frontier ones. Interested in 321s or Neos, but wait list is too long.
2. Replace 319s with 220s.
3. Gradually transition entire fleet to 737’s, specifically the 737 MAX 7.
For options 2&3, they will have the first airplanes delivered 18 months from now.
1. Buy more used 320s. They only want nice/well kept ones like Alaskas; don’t want the sprit/frontier ones. Interested in 321s or Neos, but wait list is too long.
2. Replace 319s with 220s.
3. Gradually transition entire fleet to 737’s, specifically the 737 MAX 7.
For options 2&3, they will have the first airplanes delivered 18 months from now.
Points 2 and 3 seem like far fetched rumors... however the earnings call repeatedly mentioned fuel costs as a headwind so perhaps if they got a steal of a deal on Max's it could happen. I'm not sure how Boeing's order book looks now.
10-27-2021, 02:09 PM
#25
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To your first point, as was verified on the earnings call today, they want used 320s with FAA paperwork/mx records. They are far easier to induct. I think they said all but 2 being inducted in 2022 have FAA paperwork.
Points 2 and 3 seem like far fetched rumors... however the earnings call repeatedly mentioned fuel costs as a headwind so perhaps if they got a steal of a deal on Max's it could happen. I'm not sure how Boeing's order book looks now.
Points 2 and 3 seem like far fetched rumors... however the earnings call repeatedly mentioned fuel costs as a headwind so perhaps if they got a steal of a deal on Max's it could happen. I'm not sure how Boeing's order book looks now.
10-27-2021, 02:30 PM
#26
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I don’t think it’s that far fetched, Maury said they were looking at doing an investor day presentation in December. This would line up with an aircraft order with deliveries in 2023. If Airbus is involved the new MX CBA that was ratified yesterday should allow the A220 deal to close easily. Also 54 new routes connecting G4 bases to be announced in Q4
10-27-2021, 02:56 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
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I don’t think it’s that far fetched, Maury said they were looking at doing an investor day presentation in December. This would line up with an aircraft order with deliveries in 2023. If Airbus is involved the new MX CBA that was ratified yesterday should allow the A220 deal to close easily. Also 54 new routes connecting G4 bases to be announced in Q4
While I would love to see A220-300/500s ordered, my bet is still on adding older and cheaper A320s since many are being replaced by the NEOs and are now available. SWA faked out a lot of people with supposed interest in the A220 too and negotiated an awesome deal with Boeing for the MAX-7s.
A full Airbus fleet replacement seems unlikely, but you never know…. You could probably buy 3 old A320s for the price of one new MAX-7. Breakeven is easier, even with high gas prices, when acquisition/capital costs are low….
10-27-2021, 04:33 PM
#28
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Posts: 284
A mixed fleet would suck. Hey pilots in XYZ base, you are being transitioned to 220s. Now you are incredibly limited on your ability to trade, pick up etc outside if your base.
OR
Hey, we are making a few if your XYZ based aircraft a 220. Now you get to fly the shiny new plane and are only able to trade, drop, etc with a highly select few pilots in your base.
We just completed a HUGE fleet transition. We gonna seriously do it again?? Bad idea. You dont see Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue running to get rid if their Airbus fleet. They just buy newer ones.
None of this makes good sense. And I would hate to start flying a glorified RJ and give up my roomy Airbus cockpit.
OR
Hey, we are making a few if your XYZ based aircraft a 220. Now you get to fly the shiny new plane and are only able to trade, drop, etc with a highly select few pilots in your base.
We just completed a HUGE fleet transition. We gonna seriously do it again?? Bad idea. You dont see Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue running to get rid if their Airbus fleet. They just buy newer ones.
None of this makes good sense. And I would hate to start flying a glorified RJ and give up my roomy Airbus cockpit.
10-27-2021, 06:06 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,825
A mixed fleet would suck. Hey pilots in XYZ base, you are being transitioned to 220s. Now you are incredibly limited on your ability to trade, pick up etc outside if your base.
OR
Hey, we are making a few if your XYZ based aircraft a 220. Now you get to fly the shiny new plane and are only able to trade, drop, etc with a highly select few pilots in your base.
We just completed a HUGE fleet transition. We gonna seriously do it again?? Bad idea. You dont see Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue running to get rid if their Airbus fleet. They just buy newer ones.
None of this makes good sense. And I would hate to start flying a glorified RJ and give up my roomy Airbus cockpit.
OR
Hey, we are making a few if your XYZ based aircraft a 220. Now you get to fly the shiny new plane and are only able to trade, drop, etc with a highly select few pilots in your base.
We just completed a HUGE fleet transition. We gonna seriously do it again?? Bad idea. You dont see Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue running to get rid if their Airbus fleet. They just buy newer ones.
None of this makes good sense. And I would hate to start flying a glorified RJ and give up my roomy Airbus cockpit.
Have you ever seen an A220 cockpit? The pilots I know who fly it for Delta like it a lot and they find it wide and comfortable:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Delt...FG04x9/wFGazO4
Maybe you should actually check it out before you use such broad generalizations and “glorified RJ” comments. Air France is adding 80 A220-300s (120 seats) as A319 replacements as we speak.
10-27-2021, 06:29 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 284
JetBlue already has a multifleet pilot group. And if they replace EVERYTHING with the 220 then they are single fleet.
You want to see QOL take a dump, bring a mixed fleet here. The 757 was a different animal with a specific niche.
Not to mention the complexity. I am not supportive if anything other then NEOs/321s/or used 320s. Just my opinion.
You want to see QOL take a dump, bring a mixed fleet here. The 757 was a different animal with a specific niche.
Not to mention the complexity. I am not supportive if anything other then NEOs/321s/or used 320s. Just my opinion.
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