Originally Posted by 310skying

seems like you aren’t familiar with anything that we did and are doing at G4 during the pandemic. I happily sat at home for 3 months collecting min without having to be phone contactable at all, the other 7 I flew 2-3 days a month not being phone liable for the other 27. If I didn’t want to be phone contactable we had, and continue to have a 100% voluntary ETO program that was not tied in any way to preventing furloughs (ours is only 45 hours). I’m not trying to justify furloughing pilots at all. Not one pilot at G4 wanted to furlough, we gave the company every chance to prevent furloughs short of taking concessions, including taking a 50% pay cut in the form of a loan to be paid back after recovery. Our union asked for financials when we were asked to consider concessions and the financials
clearly showed there was no need to furlough or take concessions. The reason pilots at G4 got furloughed was not because the company was losing money or needed to furlough ( we had a positive EBITDA excluding gov funds in q4) they were furloughed as a ploy to try and extort deep concessions for up to two years. Our union saw right through this and played the game flawlessly. All pilots back on property, no loss of seniority accrual, no loss of medical coverage, and at a maximum a loss of 142 hours of pay for furloughed pilots.

Sounds like you like sitting at home stroking to your new aircraft deliveries (as long as you don’t look at the debt side of you balance sheet or your long term lease contracts). Personally I don’t think spirit is a bad career move for anybody, you and every pilot
there should have great careers, but you are kidding yourself to think it’s a more financially stable company than G4. You guys have a much better relationship with management than we will ever have.

Right now you have a better contact than we do, I wouldn’t want it any other way... how else can we justify trying to get ourselves a better contract? We learned a lot from our first contract negotiations 5 years ago. It’s not only in G4 pilots best interest to get an industry leading contract but in every pilots interest for when it’s time to negotiate your next contract! Remember when we signed our contract 5 years ago we had better rates than Delta on the 80... because we raised the bar, you and F9 were able to raise the bar further. G4 is consistently the most profitable airline in the US and can clearly afford to pay us industry leading wages and benefits, this bodes well for F9 and SAVE, you guys have the closest business model to us and are worth as much or more when it’s your time to negotiate... just happens that it’s our turn to step up to the plate right now.

Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo

Tough love time....

You wont get industry leading wages and benefits. Sorry if that hurts you. Nothing says you cant raise the bar you're at. The NMB doesnt give two farts about your claim of profitability and that meaning industry leading wages and benefits. You have never been through a section 6. You contractual experience was the Student Council of SkyWest and what you have heard during your short time at Allegiant and Teamsters. You are naive..no fault of yours, everyone has to learn.

Do you know why Spirit didn't leap legacy carriers in mediation with the NMB? Because thats not how it works. We did get the largest increase in NMB history (according to the NMB)
Do you know why Frontier didn't leap legacy carriers in mediation with NMB? Because thats not how it works. (They did beat NK for the largest increase in NMB history)
Do you know why Allegiant wont leap legacy carriers in mediation with the NMB? Because thats not how it work...

Im done with your delusion. Bye Felicia

Originally Posted by 310skying

We are unique because we have small well connected pilot group with good union communication and support. We were the only airline to take no concessions during the pandemic because of this. Our unity is solidified by the creation of our own local within teamsters, and by the broad mistreatment of our pilot group by management. Allegiant is also unique because we are the only us airline to ever have profit margins above 20%. There are calculations done by some of the pilots here that show we are easily the most valuable pilots in the US on a net income per pilot basis. We are professionals who have helped create the most profitable and resilient airline in the world during the pandemic. It will take years for a new contract because we know how good Allegiant’s business model is and the role that we play in it. We won’t settle for anything less than industry leading pay and QOL, and we have the EXCO to make it happen

Originally Posted by 310skying

Final point to our strategy to prevent concessions. The pilots that were furloughed have been sitting at home collecting 72 hours since December with no obligation to the company except to slowly come back to the training house as we have space and time, our most junior pilots will have had more that 8 months at home fully paid and free to do whatever they want. Its not perfect and nobody here thinks they should have been furloughed in the first place, and many of them will not get the bases they were originally in (grievance that will take years to arbitrate), but we held the line so they would come back to full pay and ready to fight for an industry leading contact instead of trying to claw back concessions.

Originally Posted by 310skying

You either loved 45 or not. Regardless he was not good for negotiating CBAs.... you want to know why we will leapfrog? A combo of the elimination of the filibuster, AR, and new members of the NMB appointed by 46. You can be as salty as you want about it, but just sit back and watch. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...n-video-472315

Originally Posted by Jim Rockford

Negotiations were under 44 and signed under 44. Try again.

Originally Posted by Margaritaville

Seriously dude, step away from the kool aid. The furloughed guys went 3 months unpaid. They were jerked back and forth, even being told they would be paid into October while they "negotiated" with the union, then were retroactively furloughed! That's missed mortgage or rent and car payments. That's maxing out credit cards. That's kids with no christmas presents. That's a spouse that can't go to the grocery store. That's no joke, and not lounging by the pool for 8 months. And they were furloughed for nothing. The company made money during the pandemic (increased cash reserves, though still losing money on paper). The union and the company left their cheese in the wind as part of their constant ongoing pi$$ing contest. They were pawns in the game. Then the company takes the gubbamint money, brings the furloughees back and the union claims victory when they never did anything but let the company hose them to begin with. Also, yes, they won't get the bases they had before, many of whom only came here in the first place, because they already lived there, and could "sleep in their own bed every night". There's no question that these guys got hosed big time, and nobody cares about them because sh rolls downhill at this company, and nobody cares about anyone junior to them. I've actually heard quite a few senior folks call them a bunch of whiners and say they should suck it up and take their furlough like everyone else did.

We won't get any kind of industry leading anything in the new contract. They will dikk around for 5 years, then Maury will dump a bucket of money on the table, and the senior people will take it, just like they did last time. We may have had an MD80 pay rate higher than Delta for a couple of months, but our work rules and retirement are way, way way inferior. You have to look at the contract as a whole. We will still have industry lagging work rules because most of the senior people don't have to deal with them, so they don't care.

Originally Posted by 310skying

You either loved 45 or not. Regardless he was not good for negotiating CBAs.... you want to know why we will leapfrog? A combo of the elimination of the filibuster, AR, and new members of the NMB appointed by 46. You can be as salty as you want about it, but just sit back and watch. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...n-video-472315

Originally Posted by fishforfun

You do realize all of the negotiations for the first contract came after almost 8 years of 44? How was that not a labor friendly environment?

The only reason we got offered that contract was because uncle Maury couldn’t find anymore used Airbii and the FAA basically told him to retire the -80s after an out of cycle CHEP inspection that didn’t go so well. Just a couple hours before the voting closed on our contract MG was on CNBC announcing a billion dollar airbus deal to get the new 320s you have now.

The contract that was adopted was absolutely the bottom of the barrel overall. It only solidified the terrible work rules. How many grievances and votes to strike have come since it’s signing? But hey, you have Capts making $250k and are home every night. We had more leverage during those negotiations than you will ever have again and squandered it for a few $$. The only way you get anything in the next 3+ years better than you have now is if MG needs something bigger or he dies. Good luck.

Originally Posted by fishforfun

You do realize all of the negotiations for the first contract came after almost 8 years of 44? How was that not a labor friendly environment?

The only reason we got offered that contract was because uncle Maury couldn’t find anymore used Airbii and the FAA basically told him to retire the -80s after an out of cycle CHEP inspection that didn’t go so well. Just a couple hours before the voting closed on our contract MG was on CNBC announcing a billion dollar airbus deal to get the new 320s you have now.

The contract that was adopted was absolutely the bottom of the barrel overall. It only solidified the terrible work rules. How many grievances and votes to strike have come since it’s signing? But hey, you have Capts making $250k and are home every night. We had more leverage during those negotiations than you will ever have again and squandered it for a few $$. The only way you get anything in the next 3+ years better than you have now is if MG needs something bigger or he dies. Good luck.