Allegiant Bases
10-03-2023, 05:29 PM
#1091
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2023
Posts: 11
ALPA may be coming, but anyone hoping that happens before a new contract is an idiot or a shill for the company. No way that works out for us.
Also, as someone who has been in ALPA as a rep, remember they were responsible for Spirit's and Frontier's last contracts which were WELL below standard. Just because they are better than ours, doesn't make them good. ALPA is also responsible for the vast majority of the Regional Airline contracts for years, all of which kept the regionals well below the level of other pilots.
For those who think ALPA is a savior, just remember, it isn't ALPA negotiating your contract, it's your representatives. The only thing that ALPA does is review the language for legal purposes and provide a sounding board. They do not force the companies to do anything.
The Negotiating Committee and Eboard (MEC for ALPA) are the ones that make or break your contract. Although AR may be gone in the next election, I doubt it. I'd love to hear who you think would have the name recognition and ability to do the job without caving to the company.
As far as our Attorney is concerned, I was pretty sure his largest clients were medical, construction, and gaming. Where does the culinary stuff come from? Pretty sure the guy has also argued cases in front of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and the US Supreme Court. Sounds like that's a step down for him to do Allegiant. *shrug*
Also, as someone who has been in ALPA as a rep, remember they were responsible for Spirit's and Frontier's last contracts which were WELL below standard. Just because they are better than ours, doesn't make them good. ALPA is also responsible for the vast majority of the Regional Airline contracts for years, all of which kept the regionals well below the level of other pilots.
For those who think ALPA is a savior, just remember, it isn't ALPA negotiating your contract, it's your representatives. The only thing that ALPA does is review the language for legal purposes and provide a sounding board. They do not force the companies to do anything.
The Negotiating Committee and Eboard (MEC for ALPA) are the ones that make or break your contract. Although AR may be gone in the next election, I doubt it. I'd love to hear who you think would have the name recognition and ability to do the job without caving to the company.
As far as our Attorney is concerned, I was pretty sure his largest clients were medical, construction, and gaming. Where does the culinary stuff come from? Pretty sure the guy has also argued cases in front of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and the US Supreme Court. Sounds like that's a step down for him to do Allegiant. *shrug*
10-04-2023, 06:30 AM
#1092
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 1st year pay for the 3rd time
Posts: 1,434
I too have been saying this. But I’m finding myself moving more towards if we keep doing the same thing over and over, why should we expect different results. I do have several big concerns, 1) would switching in the middle of negotiations hurt us? 2) would that mean we’re without a union why Teamsters are ousted and ALPA comes in? 3) Why do we all think AR wouldn’t be our MEC chair?
Like you said, I’m not sure the timing is right. But when our union walks out of negotiations without anything accomplished, it’s time for accountability.
Like you said, I’m not sure the timing is right. But when our union walks out of negotiations without anything accomplished, it’s time for accountability.
10-04-2023, 06:49 AM
#1093
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2023
Posts: 11
2) no
3) because he’s an arrogant, condescending cuck who thinks we’re all too stupid to understand the process, he’s got an extensive track record of failure and can’t get us across the finish line.
10-04-2023, 07:30 AM
#1094
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: A-320
Posts: 680
ALPA may be coming, but anyone hoping that happens before a new contract is an idiot or a shill for the company. No way that works out for us.
Also, as someone who has been in ALPA as a rep, remember they were responsible for Spirit's and Frontier's last contracts which were WELL below standard. Just because they are better than ours, doesn't make them good. ALPA is also responsible for the vast majority of the Regional Airline contracts for years, all of which kept the regionals well below the level of other pilots.
For those who think ALPA is a savior, just remember, it isn't ALPA negotiating your contract, it's your representatives. The only thing that ALPA does is review the language for legal purposes and provide a sounding board. They do not force the companies to do anything.
The Negotiating Committee and Eboard (MEC for ALPA) are the ones that make or break your contract. Although AR may be gone in the next election, I doubt it. I'd love to hear who you think would have the name recognition and ability to do the job without caving to the company.
Also, as someone who has been in ALPA as a rep, remember they were responsible for Spirit's and Frontier's last contracts which were WELL below standard. Just because they are better than ours, doesn't make them good. ALPA is also responsible for the vast majority of the Regional Airline contracts for years, all of which kept the regionals well below the level of other pilots.
For those who think ALPA is a savior, just remember, it isn't ALPA negotiating your contract, it's your representatives. The only thing that ALPA does is review the language for legal purposes and provide a sounding board. They do not force the companies to do anything.
The Negotiating Committee and Eboard (MEC for ALPA) are the ones that make or break your contract. Although AR may be gone in the next election, I doubt it. I'd love to hear who you think would have the name recognition and ability to do the job without caving to the company.
10-04-2023, 07:45 AM
#1095
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 64
The bold is 100% fact, ALPA can't force the company to agree to industry standard. Nothing has changed with the process or the original timeline. Mediation doesn't take less than 2 years, we just have pilots capitulating because they didn't believe the original time line that was originally put out. What has changed here? Only blatant lies such as the union leaving negotiations early or coming to negotiations unprepared, both are completely false. I get it, it sucks to watch your peers make double and max out their retirement but breaking the union isn't a solution. I'd be open to looking at the pros/cons of an alpa drive but doing so in the middle of negotiations would completely bust the union financially, literally to zero. There's nothing the company would want more right now than to delete our unions cash reserves to zero instantly, I can't think of a worse decision for the pilot group.
What do our bylaws say about our funds if we decertify? Has anyone checked? I agree ALPA isn’t the solution to our problems but it seems like they have the organization we lack and a rolodex of people to call to get things done.
10-04-2023, 08:33 AM
#1096
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 224
The bold is 100% fact, ALPA can't force the company to agree to industry standard. Nothing has changed with the process or the original timeline. Mediation doesn't take less than 2 years, we just have pilots capitulating because they didn't believe the original time line that was originally put out. What has changed here? Only blatant lies such as the union leaving negotiations early or coming to negotiations unprepared, both are completely false. I get it, it sucks to watch your peers make double and max out their retirement but breaking the union isn't a solution. I'd be open to looking at the pros/cons of an alpa drive but doing so in the middle of negotiations would completely bust the union financially, literally to zero. There's nothing the company would want more right now than to delete our unions cash reserves to zero instantly, I can't think of a worse decision for the pilot group.
10-04-2023, 09:21 AM
#1097
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 716
The bold is 100% fact, ALPA can't force the company to agree to industry standard. Nothing has changed with the process or the original timeline. Mediation doesn't take less than 2 years, we just have pilots capitulating because they didn't believe the original time line that was originally put out. What has changed here? Only blatant lies such as the union leaving negotiations early or coming to negotiations unprepared, both are completely false. I get it, it sucks to watch your peers make double and max out their retirement but breaking the union isn't a solution. I'd be open to looking at the pros/cons of an alpa drive but doing so in the middle of negotiations would completely bust the union financially, literally to zero. There's nothing the company would want more right now than to delete our unions cash reserves to zero instantly, I can't think of a worse decision for the pilot group.
These are all facts.
Ask your union rep about the dodgers game, the steakhouse/birthday party, changing hotel reservations, or if union ever passed section 11 like NMB told them to do. There is dissension within the union right now because ppl know AR isn’t taking it seriously enough. He’s not prepared and that is the best way to tick off the NMB.
AR is scrambling and doubling down on these lies is a spit in the face to this pilot group.
10-04-2023, 11:41 AM
#1098
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 284
KC - not only did the union leave negotiations early, they went to a dodgers game the first night of mediation and a steakhouse the second night to celebrate a birthday for the exco. Union never passed section 11 even though the NMB told them to be ready on day one. Management passed their section 20. Union changed their hotel reservations and flights to leave Wednesday evening instead of Thursday morning like the NMB instructed.
These are all facts.
Ask your union rep about the dodgers game, the steakhouse/birthday party, changing hotel reservations, or if union ever passed section 11 like NMB told them to do. There is dissension within the union right now because ppl know AR isn’t taking it seriously enough. He’s not prepared and that is the best way to tick off the NMB.
AR is scrambling and doubling down on these lies is a spit in the face to this pilot group.
These are all facts.
Ask your union rep about the dodgers game, the steakhouse/birthday party, changing hotel reservations, or if union ever passed section 11 like NMB told them to do. There is dissension within the union right now because ppl know AR isn’t taking it seriously enough. He’s not prepared and that is the best way to tick off the NMB.
AR is scrambling and doubling down on these lies is a spit in the face to this pilot group.
10-05-2023, 12:54 PM
#1099
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: B757
Posts: 92
Late but here are my 2 pesos. Since 1950 we have not had any recessions that were not preceded by an inverted yield curve first, 10 out of the 11 total inversions we've had were followed by a recession so it's not a guarantee but highly likely to happen. None of the recessions in recent times happened while the rates were still in an inversion, it was always shortly after the return to un-inversion. For those that don't know what an inversion is, the US 2 year bond yield pays higher than the 10 year for example. These rates have been inverted for 15 months now so risk has been low but they look to be trending towards an un-inversion in the next few months. This means the actual risk of a downturn as we close out this business cycle will increase somewhere around early Q1.
10-06-2023, 06:51 PM
#1100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 154
KC - not only did the union leave negotiations early, they went to a dodgers game the first night of mediation and a steakhouse the second night to celebrate a birthday for the exco. Union never passed section 11 even though the NMB told them to be ready on day one. Management passed their section 20. Union changed their hotel reservations and flights to leave Wednesday evening instead of Thursday morning like the NMB instructed.
These are all facts.
Ask your union rep about the dodgers game, the steakhouse/birthday party, changing hotel reservations, or if union ever passed section 11 like NMB told them to do. There is dissension within the union right now because ppl know AR isn’t taking it seriously enough. He’s not prepared and that is the best way to tick off the NMB.
AR is scrambling and doubling down on these lies is a spit in the face to this pilot group.
These are all facts.
Ask your union rep about the dodgers game, the steakhouse/birthday party, changing hotel reservations, or if union ever passed section 11 like NMB told them to do. There is dissension within the union right now because ppl know AR isn’t taking it seriously enough. He’s not prepared and that is the best way to tick off the NMB.
AR is scrambling and doubling down on these lies is a spit in the face to this pilot group.
Trust in AR
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