MiLtoMajor123

All I'm saying is we aren't a "Big Boy" yet....so why are we demanding pay like one? We all came here knowing that. If the company can turn that 24% into growth and more stability then why not do it? The company is keeping cards close to it's chest not to **** off the pilots, but to game the market to ALL our advantage. The price for that flexibility has been at the expense of the employees, but without that flexibility we would all ready be swallowed up by Delta. Again, at the end of the day we ALL will be getting a pay raise by the end of the year. Potential growth and a raise.....I'll take it.

kbay hombre

Yeesh. Out of line, guy. As a "second income guy" with 22 years active duty and two deployments to combat zones who is transitioning to the airlines, let me assure you that if this is what the pilot base at AS is like, I'll go elsewhere. You guys shouldn't post this **** online on a public forum unless you just want to look like dicks. I don't care if you're a crusty disillusioned old timer; no excuse to be so monumentally disrespectful, especially after we've been fighting two concurrent wars for 15 years now with a lot of casualties. I'm fortunate that I've never had a scratch on me but I know a lot of rotary guys who were routinely taking fire and some who didn't come back, both marines and army. We earn our "second income" being away from our families involuntarily while living in tin cans and taking bullets in our airframes, and if we're lucky, coming back alive. Except for maybe 1-2 airframes, there isn't a single active duty aviator, fixed or rotary, who hasn't deploy over there at least once and fly in a combat zone if they were in any time between 2003-2012.

OCCP

Wow, spoken like someone still in the honeymoon phase. I'm glad you're not at the negotiating table.


Thank you for service, I really mean that. But you are completely clueless about the 121 environment. Listen to and learn from the guys who have been doing this 10,20,30 years before you start saying things like we should be not be asking for top tier pay. Unbelievable....

Packrat

Don't worry too much, guys. Alaska will beat those rose colored glasses off his nose about the 2.5 year mark. Even faster if he volunteers for a Union position.

Arctichicken

You're speculating but facts speak for themselves. Numbers don't lie. The last time I checked, Alaska is a legacy carrier flying 737 ERs. We are entitled to be paid accordingly.
Fact: BM, during Flight Path, stated that in order to pay us "market based wages" AND grow, we need to maintain an annual profit of 6%. This figured was upped to 10% a couple of years ago. Our profit now is 25%. Questions? What part of this conversation do you not understand, bubba?

ImperialxRat

Hiya, thanks for your service.

The management teams of airlines have been sending this message to pilots for the longest time: "we can't afford to pay what other airlines pay... we need the money for growth... we have to cut costs and are starting with the employees...etc etc etc" They have many tools in their arsenal, and they're all designed to brain wash employees into thinking that the company is barely afloat and can't afford to pay more.

I am new at Alaska as well, however I have seen this same tactic at the regionals and have watched it done at the majors. It's all a lie. Managements pay has steadily been increasing as have their other benefits.. marketing budget has gone up.. buying another airlines... repainting fleets and retiring old ones... there is so much money moving around and costs can be cut from all over the place, that i assure you we can be paid what other airlines have determined to be fair wages and still survive and be profitable AND expand. Heck most of our recent expansion is being "tested" by Skywest anyway.

Yes, you are right, we will get a raise no matter what. But it should be up to par with what others are making in the industry, not trail so far behind it just for the sake of saving share holders money.

Klsytakesit

Intended to highlight a glaring discrepancy at our little west-coast regional......Our attitudes...We will never get anywhere near major airline pay and benefits with them. 60 to 70 % of us treat this job as a fun thing to do after we have worked elsewhere.....We place more value on fun then we do on Money and Benefits.....We accept the 30 to 45% sub-par contract because at least we are all fun and nice and Alaska Airlines inc. is fun and nice...We worry about
how the business runs, we worry about Delta, we worry about being competitive....we worry that if we dont help management then we might not be profitable........and on and on and on......Fact is none of that is our business....We are tradesman...We have a trade, a craft, a skill...to be sold to the highest bidder....Who cares if we are profitable...We were very profitable from 08 thru 12...and furloughed a bunch of new hires.....I cringe every time a poster says " have really great crews".....as if that makes up for the worthless contract that we currently enjoy.......I gave enjoyed 18 years of this.....and have been sold down the road by the "fun seeking" crowd for 18 years. I do this job as well or better than most. I enjoy practicing my trade and doing a good job. I save fuel, I leave on time, I fly fast, I get passengers where they need to go. I get along with other employees. But I dont give any thought to Brad and Bens job and I have never picked up premium, sold vacation, worked on a day off, extended my duty at all ever.
This Airline will either make it or they wont.....If Delta, SWA etc.... buys us so be it....The job will go on even if the paint job changes

full of luv

Delta didn't come to Seattle to put Alaska out of business, they wanted to build a west coast/asia hub to wind down Narita as a hub over time. They needed appropriate feed and actually (much to DALPA's chagrin) tried to hammer out said feed with codeshare/exclusivity agreement with AK at first.
AK told Delta to pound sand, so Delta has been building what it needs to support having a large international presence in SEA since.

At this point, it would seem unimaginable that Delta would want to merge, the two airlines would have to give up so many assets it wouldn't make sense. One could argue that Delta actually would prefer that AK stay in place as they maintain a presence that would otherwise be filled with ULCC's and a rapidly expanding SWA presence.

Trying to fuel your airlines growth by working for less than market rates is a fool's errand. As stated before, the airline will grow if/when mgmt thinks there's opportunity, otherwise it is their jobs to pay as little as possible to make the airline run smoothly, then calculate their bonuses and calculate stock buybacks to make their stock options more valuable.
Believe me, Mgmt sits around the office thinking of ways to increase their own personal income, why shouldn't pilots do the same?
Best of luck on the new contract. Your MEC should be able to just lay the SWA contract on the table and say, "they do the same thing that we do, so here's the market rate".
Lastly as another poster stated, the rose colored glasses of the new guys will be knocked ajar by the SLI results. All it takes is one SLI in your career (anywhere) to help a junior pilot reassess their position in
this industry from "lucky dog who landed dream job" to "oh, we're not a big happy family after all".
Best of luck!

TransWorld

Pardon me for sticking my nose under your tent. Per APC here are the pay rates for the same equipment (not considering any differences in benefits, etc.):

Alaska
Delta (Delta pay % More)
Southwest (Southwest pay % More)

FO2
$90
$131 (+46%)
$112 (+24%)

CA1
$184
$245 (+33%)
$224 (+22%)

CA12
$216
$265 (+23%)
$251 (+16%)

MiLtoMajor123

It will be interesting to see how close we come to these rates. And the SLI is what it is.....all I know is we are hiring a bunch in both Airlines and that does nothing but help me in Seniority.