RJs2majors

The SLI does make me more nervous than the JCBA. For fairly junior FOs such as myself, it can get beyond ugly. SLIs are usually not pretty and there hasn't been anything like this merger in regards to such a huge disparity: 80+ year old legacy vs. a 10 year old LCC. I didn't mean to start a SLI discussion so I'll end it here.
For diehard Alaska wannabes like myself, a quick fair & equitable JCBA, as advertised by upper management, would have prevented pilots like myself from leaving. I'm sort of glad that I saw the true side of this two faced management group. Saving $20mil every month by dragging out JCBA talks in bad faith must be well worth it to Angle Lake. Money talks and the able & willing walk.

Klsytakesit

Change is not coming at Alaska Airlines inc. No shortage of Jim Jones Juice drinkers out there.....Likely the requirements may relax but that will not affect the airline....all of the silver spoon college crowd , the diversity crowd, the volunteering crowd may opt for a true major airline(we are not one of those or a legacy). They will always find enough skilled pilots...... how it has always been

MiLtoMajor123

Calm down Yoko! Lets not kill the goose that still lays some pretty golden eggs. Grass is always greener....no one (especially pilots) is ever happy. Evny...Vanity ....all that crap. This is the game....the company wants to pay as little as possible for labor, the labor wants to get paid as much as possible. It's going to work out. Didn't Alaska have the highest pay awhile ago before the other carriers leap frogged us? Didn't we just expand as an Airline to avoid being eaten up? Doesn't it make sense we can grow in the future if we play our cards right? I swear to God I think some people here were praying that Delta would buy us out.

I mean...no matter what we'll get a pay increase in the fall no matter what.....so why not wait till then to be all boo hoo on your six figure salary? Sure Delta is in town with more $$$, but for how long? This business is not so cut and dry.

Arctichicken

Alaska had the highest pay because the big boys went through bankruptcies and gutted labor contracts. This was short lived since Kasher gutted ours too and we were once again the lowest paid. Contracts '08 and '13 made little gains, which brought us back close to par with the big boys for a very short time. Contract '13 was passed by 60 some percent, knowing that we will be the lowest paid 737 pilots in the legacy/majors sometime around midterm of this contract. We are now underpaid by as much as 50%. Remember, hourly pay isn't everything as we've never regained any of our work rules lost during Kasher.
You ask about growth. This airline didn't know the true meaning of growth until their hands were forced. Remember, this management has a pea sized mind. The only growth they know is in number of seats. For whatever reason, puzzle palace does not have the balls to expand like SWA. I'm not a fan of GS (CEO of West Jet) but he was the only one with balls and brains to grow this place when he was the COO(?) here. He ended up in being "let go". You can thank DAL for coming into our coveted SEA market thereby forcing our hand to grow or get out. I believe it was the same sort of mind set on why we over paid for VX. jetBlue acquiring VX could have put a damper on Alaska. As much as the puzzle palace loves to pat themselves on their back, they are just plain lucky! Another example of this is Hawaii. For years, the company said that there's no money in Hawaii and that the market is too saturated. Bada boom, Aloha goes out of business and overnight, we jump into Hawaii. Now it accounts for more than 20% of our flying, yielding a huge profit.
So MiLto, enjoy the honeymoon. We've all been there. Every business is market driven. True, we will get a pay raise which is long overdue for this pilot group. I doubt we will ever be the highest paid unless the arbitrator rules in our favor, which even then won't be quite industry leading. Remember who you are dealing with. This management group is not so kind and that's putting it lightly. No management is and this one is especially cheap and cut throat. Puzzle palace has completely lost the human touch. I guess that's what happens when bean counters run an airline hiding behind their desks and making decisions solely based on pie charts, spread sheets, and others forms of metrics. I have a feeling that you and the rest of the FOs who stick it out here will move up the seniority list nicely since those who are able and willing are bailing for greener pastures in record numbers. Get ready for round 2 after the JCBA settles. The SLI is going to be real fun. I never thought I would say this but Dixie and the eskimo together can make a nice dysfunctional couple.

Klsytakesit

Military guy.....You have no dog in this fight...Let those of us that only have one income and work Jan through June to pay for your second income worry about whether we are being compensated appropriately.....And yes, you are welcome.

MiLtoMajor123

I"m sorry...I thought you said "thank you for your service". You know OUR little insurance program in case the world goes to crap? You know that thing that protects the price of oil which this market is balancing on. You know that thing where people have to leave their family behind to go into harms way? Yeah my ass in on that line...still. Do I complain about that fact? NO. Why? Because I understand what the big picture is. NO, I don't have two incomes and wont unless I serve more time. As stupid as it sounds, not only do I pay taxes now, I paid taxes while I served...least it was for a time that I was in a combat zone. You don't like taxes? Vote Libertarian like we all should be doing. So tell me again why I have no "Dog" in OUR fight?



As to the topic, Alaska never wanted to grow. I liked that about Alaska...they wanted to stay a small airline. Yes, Delta did force their hand and now they are in expand or die mode. The problem is we don't know what Alaska will look like in 5 years. We don't know what the market will be in 5 years. If we force the company to pay us too much, that leaves the WHOLE company and thus OUR jobs more vulnerable. I'll take a modest pay increase with more benefits...what's not to like about that? Especially if it still allows the company to expand. But again, DEMANDING we get paid at the top of the industry doesn't get Alaska out of it's trouble with Delta lurking in the shadows. That is the bottom line. This industry is boom and bust and nobody seems to remember the bad times....only that they want MORE $$$ no matter the cost...even if it eventually cost them their jobs. I signed the dotted line knowing that I have a good job that pays pretty darn good doing what I love to do. I'd argue that we are the lucky ones. You don't like it ...then leave. Just realize that you probably are inuring more risk of a layoff if the market turns by giving up any seniority you do have. Plus...what happens when that other Major dumps their contract again as a correction to the market? Back to square one. I also signed the dotted line when I joined the Military knowing exactly what sacrifices I was making in time and $$$$.........and yes..... you are Welcome!

Flyaf05

Totally uncalled for and disrespectful comment man! If you took two seconds to read any of his prior posts you'd know he separated from the AF and isn't collecting a retirement check. He also did his time at a regional after getting out. Even if he was collecting a check he'd have earned every penny of it defending your freedom to make stupid comments.

waterboy

How long have you been at Alaska? I ask because I too was very pro company when I was first hired. I defended the company against senior pilots complaining about being underpaid. Fast forward several years and I now realize why they were so upset.

It's upsetting because the company has the means to pay us. But they don't. They boast about a 24% operating profit margin, but cry poor to pay us. DL/UA/AA are around the 10-12% range. It will not cripple AS to pay us more. We just want to be paid accordingly. Did you know BT and BM got nice big raises last year? Why cant labor share in the current success of the industry? This company is making money hand over fist. They are wall street's darling in the airline industry. We are a cash cow. That money is going somewhere...specifically the C-suite and the BOD. We just want our cut. The less we get paid, the more money they make for themselves.

This company talks about how great they are to its people and how they want this to be the smoothest merger in airline history. While its not the worst, its definitely not the smoothest. Richard Anderson snapped NWA pilot pay up to DLs right away. VA and AS are still on separate payscales. And all the new routes announced at the Mainline level went to VA. Pay may not have been a factor in that.....or maybe it did.

They keep asking us "do the right thing" yet they do not. VA flight attendants switched over to AFA. The company had the perfect opportunity to "Do the right thing" and bring their pay up to their counter parts at Alaska. But they didn't. They chose to give them a small raise, which still severely lags their peers flying the Eskimo. What happen to "One team, one fight, hooah"?

We all want this place to be great. But after the company has had so many opportunities to make this a better place , they have failed. We, as labor, can only be disappointed so many times before our excitement of flying for a Major turns into anger and contempt. This place sucks. Tho I wished it didn't. I wish my friends at other airlines were envious of where I work, but instead they all ask "Want me to write a recommendation for you here?"

Thank you for your service. I get that flying a 737 at FL380 is much better than being in MOPP 4 in a simulated bunker, in the middle of summer. But that's not what we should compare ourselves to. We just want to be paid like the rest of the big boys. Why should I accept being paid significantly less than someone flying the same exact plane as me at company less profitable than mine?

Klsytakesit

So you have a dog in the fight....Your tone and your attitude implied that you did not.
For me personally, I could care less...I go to work, fly from A to B B to A and go home.....Feel no need to wear a hat make a PA or chat up the self-loading freight. That was the beauty of Kasher....Freedom to do my own thing....Makes life much happier and stress is all gone. I am sure we will see a 20% raise by 2018 and the guys with no retirement who are counting on a 401K will get a percent or 2. Scope is not going to happen until 2021 with the full contract....SLI will happen rapidly and it will affect eveyone at Virgin and probably the 20 yr guys on down.

Arctichicken

C'mon man, that's not cool. You contribute and bring up some good info on here but you have just crossed the line. I've spent a good part of my life on active duty and the rest in the reserves/guard and it wasn't a hand out as you seem to think. The military guys do pay with sweat and sometimes with blood. Unless you've walked in someone's shoes, I suggest you keep your pie hole shut and not disrespect those who've served. My friends didn't die so that smart asses can bash each other on a public forum. I don't mean this in any disrespect to you or anyone else. Hope you understand.
MiLto, take it down a notch or two, please. You seem to be a FNG and you come off a bit too strong. It's a public forum and I believe in freedom of speech but there's no need to be a smartass.

I was once a koolaid drinking company sympathizer too. It won't take long for them to see the truth. As I've said before, enjoy the honeymoon while it lasts, all you FNGs!