Just a Lurker

Also, I don't expect fences.
Fences have almost exclusively been used to protect the lucrative flying of one carrier against another. There is none in AS-VX. You have to go way back to find otherwise, and I can't site a base fence example. Of course, Management wants a fence to avoid training costs, but they have no say.

In award after award, arbitrators state that fences are divisive. Since the whole goal of an SLI is to integrate and not divide, they are loathe to award them. By the TPA setup, the Merger Committees can agree on some things that carry into arbitration, so there is always a possibility they require a fence. But I doubt VX would agree. The Airbus is at risk of going away, not the 737, and I doubt VX would want to risk enduring a downsizing with fences that could restrict options to other seats/bases.

rickair7777

It would be very nebulous to obtain meaningful info from that data, too many variables. For example VX pilots are mostly commuters, so an FO leaving might be chasing a base close to or at home, vice better money or whatever. When all that was said and done, you'd find that very few VX pilots actually left anyway. There's also no way you could find out "who has apps out".

RJs2majors

Quite a few VX pilots are "undesirables" therefore can't go elsewhere. They are fortunate to be Alaska pilots and will now have a decent career.

rickair7777

How so? The one's I've met seem to fall into two categories...

Refugees from bankrupt airlines, in an era when nobody else was hiring.

Junior regional CA's who took a chance on a start-up when nobody else was hiring.

Caveman

JAL...great informative couple posts

Previous Arbitration panels have been given great discretion / latitude in the application of Fair & Equitable.

The point above to Career Expectations was Attrition would serve as an excellent indicator of a Pilot’s Career Expectation in today’s Hiring environment. For the VX folks trying to derail the Attrition/Career Expectation issue...and get that quickly swept under the rug....I think you’ll find the sentiment among your Alaska brothers that many only applied and ever wanted to work at AS, and when presented with other opportunities choose AS.

Caveman

Exactly the point in your example you listed above...where as a Commuter...he determined his Career Expectation to be less than at Opportunity “X” in order to be close at home...where they would’ve held a higher personal Career Expectation.

ExFokkerFlyer

Excuse me? What have you been smoking and how old is it?

One of the most ignorant things I've read, and this is the Internet! Ignorance everywhere!


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rickair7777

It's a hypothetical. A VX FO from dallas might take a job with AA for better opportunity. Or it might have been because of the home base. If he was at a regional, fairly obvious he would pick AA over VX (or AS) if given a choice.

But it's a fairly ridiculous discussion... no arbitrator would ever agree to reading motives into incomplete and nebulous data about who may or may not have apps out. Payscales and upgrade times are more concrete data... don't forget VX was already in negotiations at the time of the acquisition (yes everyone knows the merger expedited the contract).

Klsytakesit

You and others like you who place a high value on culture and cool airports and cool airplanes are the only reason we face a continuous, never ending uphil struggle at this effing place. Thanks for picketing and the helping with a premium trip on the same day. You and your kind were not selected for your ability to fly an airplane. You were selected for your ability to vote yes....by the way, it shows in how you fly.....Your welcome!

ogilthorpe

My god this is insane. We are a small, second-tier airline who is merging with another small, second-tier airline to create a medium-sized second-tier airline. I hope I'm not the only Alaska pilot who finds this kind of stuff embarrassing.