Senority List Integration from 2007 on......
05-14-2016, 12:16 PM
#121
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 31
I think the point you are missing is every VX pilot would be very happy with relative seniority and every AS pilot would be ready to burn this place to the ground. We didn't pay 2 million for that... We could have just got that without an attorney. When this is all said and done I am pretty sure we will all feel like we gave up a lot and well that will probably mean it was fair.
05-14-2016, 12:27 PM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 401
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-3e0EkvIEM
We all need to realize that if jetBlue had won the bidding, Alaska would have been boxed into a corner and slowly bled out by Delta in SEA.
OTOH, Virgin America most likely would not survive a big fuel price spike like 2008 and/or an economic downturn.
So, we need each other to survive and thrive, giving good opportunities for all pilots.
The CEO of Alaska started the ball rolling and had the bankroll to win. I don't think any pilot at either carrier wants to go through this, but we just fly the planes.
Lets get a good contract first, we have quite a bit of muscle to get this done quickly as management wants this to go smooth and they have a lot on the line right now.
SLI is never fun, but it can be done well (DL/NW) or ugly (US/AW). It's not going to be settled on this forum or anytime soon. Let your reps know your feelings and good luck to all of us.
We all need to realize that if jetBlue had won the bidding, Alaska would have been boxed into a corner and slowly bled out by Delta in SEA.
OTOH, Virgin America most likely would not survive a big fuel price spike like 2008 and/or an economic downturn.
So, we need each other to survive and thrive, giving good opportunities for all pilots.
The CEO of Alaska started the ball rolling and had the bankroll to win. I don't think any pilot at either carrier wants to go through this, but we just fly the planes.
Lets get a good contract first, we have quite a bit of muscle to get this done quickly as management wants this to go smooth and they have a lot on the line right now.
SLI is never fun, but it can be done well (DL/NW) or ugly (US/AW). It's not going to be settled on this forum or anytime soon. Let your reps know your feelings and good luck to all of us.
05-14-2016, 12:41 PM
#123
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-3e0EkvIEM
We all need to realize that if jetBlue had won the bidding, Alaska would have been boxed into a corner and slowly bled out by Delta in SEA.
OTOH, Virgin America most likely would not survive a big fuel price spike like 2008 and/or an economic downturn.
So, we need each other to survive and thrive, giving good opportunities for all pilots.
The CEO of Alaska started the ball rolling and had the bankroll to win. I don't think any pilot at either carrier wants to go through this, but we just fly the planes.
Lets get a good contract first, we have quite a bit of muscle to get this done quickly as management wants this to go smooth and they have a lot on the line right now.
SLI is never fun, but it can be done well (DL/NW) or ugly (US/AW). It's not going to be settled on this forum or anytime soon. Let your reps know your feelings and good luck to all of us.
We all need to realize that if jetBlue had won the bidding, Alaska would have been boxed into a corner and slowly bled out by Delta in SEA.
OTOH, Virgin America most likely would not survive a big fuel price spike like 2008 and/or an economic downturn.
So, we need each other to survive and thrive, giving good opportunities for all pilots.
The CEO of Alaska started the ball rolling and had the bankroll to win. I don't think any pilot at either carrier wants to go through this, but we just fly the planes.
Lets get a good contract first, we have quite a bit of muscle to get this done quickly as management wants this to go smooth and they have a lot on the line right now.
SLI is never fun, but it can be done well (DL/NW) or ugly (US/AW). It's not going to be settled on this forum or anytime soon. Let your reps know your feelings and good luck to all of us.
05-14-2016, 12:58 PM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Captain B-737
Posts: 290
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-3e0EkvIEM
We all need to realize that if jetBlue had won the bidding, Alaska would have been boxed into a corner and slowly bled out by Delta in SEA.
OTOH, Virgin America most likely would not survive a big fuel price spike like 2008 and/or an economic downturn.
So, we need each other to survive and thrive, giving good opportunities for all pilots.
The CEO of Alaska started the ball rolling and had the bankroll to win. I don't think any pilot at either carrier wants to go through this, but we just fly the planes.
Lets get a good contract first, we have quite a bit of muscle to get this done quickly as management wants this to go smooth and they have a lot on the line right now.
SLI is never fun, but it can be done well (DL/NW) or ugly (US/AW). It's not going to be settled on this forum or anytime soon. Let your reps know your feelings and good luck to all of us.
We all need to realize that if jetBlue had won the bidding, Alaska would have been boxed into a corner and slowly bled out by Delta in SEA.
OTOH, Virgin America most likely would not survive a big fuel price spike like 2008 and/or an economic downturn.
So, we need each other to survive and thrive, giving good opportunities for all pilots.
The CEO of Alaska started the ball rolling and had the bankroll to win. I don't think any pilot at either carrier wants to go through this, but we just fly the planes.
Lets get a good contract first, we have quite a bit of muscle to get this done quickly as management wants this to go smooth and they have a lot on the line right now.
SLI is never fun, but it can be done well (DL/NW) or ugly (US/AW). It's not going to be settled on this forum or anytime soon. Let your reps know your feelings and good luck to all of us.
05-14-2016, 01:05 PM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: 787 Capt.
Posts: 644
After our SLI the 1st vacancy bid was for about 80 737 Captains, and virtually every one of them was a legacy United FO who wasn't able to hold Captain previously. Those were previously CAL pilot jobs that they just walked in and took. I think a VX pilot who's on the verge of being a Captain, and then gets 200-300 AS FO's placed ahead of him and bid Airbus Captain is going to be pretty upset someone else took his job. Handing a bunch of Airbus Captain seats to AS FOs would be a windfall using DOH or anything close to it.
Oh please... Are you one of those "Captains are Captains and FO's are FO's guys?
05-14-2016, 01:52 PM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 384
What will really impress me is if both MEC's come together and put out a JCBA worth voting yes for, and a SLI without going to arbitration. Wonder what the odds of that are? Probably wouldn't bet in Vegas, but that would be pretty cool.
05-14-2016, 02:42 PM
#129
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 69
Apparently a lot of people forgot what it is that "longevity" gets you in this business. It gets you:
Prime vacation slots
Weekends off flying
Holiday off flying
Desirable layovers
Widebody int'l flying (moot)
Pass riding rank (moot as that would likely remain DOH for everyone, and I could care less if it does as far as I'm concerned)
As someone else noted, career expectations are the same at AS and VX; narrowbody domestic flying with some Mexico and Hawaii flying.
Anything other than relative seniority is a straight up quantifiable windfall for AS pilots for the items listed above that aren't moot.
If you slot VX pilots somewhere down the list and not relative, a mid or junior AS pilot who has no expectation of holding those things will now be able to hold them. Those things will be taken from senior VX pilots. That is a windfall. VX is bringing flying, vacation slots, weekday trips, holiday off trips and tropical destinations with us. If you think it's fair to steal that from people you're delusional. Why would anyone care what "number" you are on a list as long as you have the same QOL you had and expected?
Even with relative, VX pilots stand to lose quite a bit in terms of QOL with AS rules. 75 hour min all year with flex up from there vs 70 with flex up to 75 six months/year? That's 1-2 less days off/month. That archaic line bidding BS with no transition or conflict language that forces you to get yourself back over 75? Complete garbage. VX has A LOT of commuters, and these two things alone are going to destroy the QOL a lot of VX pilots have come to enjoy.
Prime vacation slots
Weekends off flying
Holiday off flying
Desirable layovers
Widebody int'l flying (moot)
Pass riding rank (moot as that would likely remain DOH for everyone, and I could care less if it does as far as I'm concerned)
As someone else noted, career expectations are the same at AS and VX; narrowbody domestic flying with some Mexico and Hawaii flying.
Anything other than relative seniority is a straight up quantifiable windfall for AS pilots for the items listed above that aren't moot.
If you slot VX pilots somewhere down the list and not relative, a mid or junior AS pilot who has no expectation of holding those things will now be able to hold them. Those things will be taken from senior VX pilots. That is a windfall. VX is bringing flying, vacation slots, weekday trips, holiday off trips and tropical destinations with us. If you think it's fair to steal that from people you're delusional. Why would anyone care what "number" you are on a list as long as you have the same QOL you had and expected?
Even with relative, VX pilots stand to lose quite a bit in terms of QOL with AS rules. 75 hour min all year with flex up from there vs 70 with flex up to 75 six months/year? That's 1-2 less days off/month. That archaic line bidding BS with no transition or conflict language that forces you to get yourself back over 75? Complete garbage. VX has A LOT of commuters, and these two things alone are going to destroy the QOL a lot of VX pilots have come to enjoy.
05-14-2016, 03:05 PM
#130
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Just throwing it out there...All this talk of career expectations and our lack of wide body aircraft. Sure, today, but we could certainly use them. We fly 23 full jets to and from Anchorage every day in the summer. We could easily fill a 767 or 787 to and from the islands. I will not be surprised to see wide body aircraft here before I retire. So yeah, I expect to fly them in my career.
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