Alaska nearing deal to acquire Virgin America
04-07-2016, 05:01 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: CA
Posts: 1,231
There's no way this can happen. The prime directive in the ALPA Merger/Frag policy is that neither pilot group gain any windfalls in seniority. To place a 9 year VX Capt alongside a 30 year AS Capt would be a HUGE windfall gain in seniority. For the same reason, it would be grossly unfair to VX pilots to suggest any form of staple as happened in the SWA/AT debacle.
It's way more likely and reasonable that the VX pilots are placed on the list either with DOH or a ratio with AS pilots hired at the same time. Combine that with a No Bump/No Flush clause that insures NO CURRENT VX or AS Capt loses their seat unless they bid out of it.
.
It's way more likely and reasonable that the VX pilots are placed on the list either with DOH or a ratio with AS pilots hired at the same time. Combine that with a No Bump/No Flush clause that insures NO CURRENT VX or AS Capt loses their seat unless they bid out of it.
.
DOH?
You're way off.
Then you finish saying you expect nobody to gain or lose relative seniority? Which is it? If it's DOH it's certainly not honoring relative seniority.
04-07-2016, 05:47 AM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: A330 First Officer
Posts: 1,465
Putting the top VA CA along side the top AS CA would be putting the top 1% along side the top 1%. How is the VA CA gaining anything he didn't have prior?
DOH?
You're way off.
Then you finish saying you expect nobody to gain or lose relative seniority? Which is it? If it's DOH it's certainly not honoring relative seniority.
DOH?
You're way off.
Then you finish saying you expect nobody to gain or lose relative seniority? Which is it? If it's DOH it's certainly not honoring relative seniority.
04-07-2016, 07:58 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
I don't think that they could put the #1 AS pilot and then the #1 VX pilot as number two, and so on. That would be a huge windfall with regards to seniority because AS acquired VX and AS is MUCH more senior than VX. The argument is that you can't put a nine year captain ahead of a 30 year captain. Another part of the equation is the fact that the most senior VX captain is around the upgrade mark at AS. Longevity usually rules during an integration.
Another point, Horizon and it's pilots have no part of a seniority integration between major airlines. They are a regional airline and career expectations are completely different.
Another point, Horizon and it's pilots have no part of a seniority integration between major airlines. They are a regional airline and career expectations are completely different.
04-07-2016, 08:10 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 197
I don't think that they could put the #1 AS pilot and then the #1 VX pilot as number two, and so on. That would be a huge windfall with regards to seniority because AS acquired VX and AS is MUCH more senior than VX. The argument is that you can't put a nine year captain ahead of a 30 year captain. Another part of the equation is the fact that the most senior VX captain is around the upgrade mark at AS. Longevity usually rules during an integration.
Another point, Horizon and it's pilots have no part of a seniority integration between major airlines. They are a regional airline and career expectations are completely different.
Another point, Horizon and it's pilots have no part of a seniority integration between major airlines. They are a regional airline and career expectations are completely different.
04-07-2016, 08:44 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Driving to work & Looking Left @ the Surf!!
Posts: 727
Didn't the Morris guys make out like bandits? The VX guys should be seat protected but have their numbers mixed in at a large ratio, maybe 20-1? I have a handful of AS friends (10/06) who turned the recent upgrade, not wanting to do the ANC commute and they could now be held out for years. Not right.
I liked the post about AAG keeping them separate and then flowing them through Horizon....seems safe.
Just my $0.02
Baja.
04-07-2016, 08:52 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
No, I don't think that you are correct. Regional Airlines don't fly from one coast to the other and do not have ETOPS flights. Regionals do not have 112-165ish seats on their airplanes. Financially speaking, I think VX is a National and Alaska is a Major.
04-07-2016, 08:57 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 343
Don't feed the troll.
04-07-2016, 09:03 AM
#138
UCH Pilot
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 787
Posts: 776
There's no way this can happen. The prime directive in the ALPA Merger/Frag policy is that neither pilot group gain any windfalls in seniority. To place a 9 year VX Capt alongside a 30 year AS Capt would be a HUGE windfall gain in seniority. For the same reason, it would be grossly unfair to VX pilots to suggest any form of staple as happened in the SWA/AT debacle.
It's way more likely and reasonable that the VX pilots are placed on the list either with DOH or a ratio with AS pilots hired at the same time. Combine that with a No Bump/No Flush clause that insures NO CURRENT VX or AS Capt loses their seat unless they bid out of it.
There are NO "career expectations" since the best BOTH groups could expect to hold is narrowbody Captain. I would expect this SLI merger to go as smoothly as the DAL/NWA merger where individual pilots neither lost or gained significant relative seniority.
It's way more likely and reasonable that the VX pilots are placed on the list either with DOH or a ratio with AS pilots hired at the same time. Combine that with a No Bump/No Flush clause that insures NO CURRENT VX or AS Capt loses their seat unless they bid out of it.
There are NO "career expectations" since the best BOTH groups could expect to hold is narrowbody Captain. I would expect this SLI merger to go as smoothly as the DAL/NWA merger where individual pilots neither lost or gained significant relative seniority.
These two pilot groups are going to share in the benefits of the merger. DOH is not going to happen. UAL didn't even propose that with us which would have stapled about 1,700 CAL 2005-2008 hire pilots on the bottom because they recognized it would not be adopted. Even with that longevity have weighted in, CAL pilots are in equal positions with UAL pilots hired 8 years ahead of us. That's WITH longevity. Status and Category is going to be the driver, I'm afraid.
I predict relative seniority +/- 5% as was in the UAL CAL and NWA DAL mergers.
Disclaimer: I have friends at both airlines.
04-07-2016, 09:16 AM
#139
UCH Pilot
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 787
Posts: 776
Especially if AS management doesn't take the airplanes, you're going to have a SW/AT type deal where you got 100% of the purchased airline's pilots, but only 75% of their planes. In this case you may not end up with any of their planes.
04-07-2016, 10:09 AM
#140
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 70
777 FO? I didn't realize Alaska or Virgin had any of those. So you're trolling this thread because? Any pilot figure out the math on the merger and somehow change their lives for the better? No? Looks like the merger is happening anyway.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ArcticDog
Major
8
12-26-2008 08:08 AM
