LonesomeSky

You make a good point. United, Delta, or American could get a revolutionary contract. What're the odds that little Alaska, who is decades behind, comes up with the best deal by going first? Maybe sitting on our hands and letting the heavyweights make the first move will yield better results.

There's a pretty strong alternate argument too. We at Alaska have so much ground to make up, maybe it's best to lock in these massive gains before we lose them? Also, what can the big airlines get that we would miss out on by Alaska going first? These are extraordinary times for pilot negotiations, but after the dust settles, what can we really change? In the end, no matter the airline, most pilots will be working 70 to 90 hours per month and have 14 to 17 days off. We can negotiate goodies like rigs, override pay, better vacation day credit, etc, and we can also wrestle control of scheduling and scope, but outside of those things, what else do we want? What are we going to miss out on? Ii say this with sincerity, is there something that I'm missing?

For me to vote yes, this contract is going to have to have everything that we asked for: scope, scheduling controls, schedule flexibility, work rules, better vacation availability, better vacation credit, faster sick time accrual, sick time changed to personal time, holiday overridie, redeye override, international override, better training pay, better retirement, and the leading narrow body payrates in the country with iron clad snap up. We must forever be the top paid 737 drivers in the country or tied with the best paid 737 drivers. If we get all of that? Why wait to vote it in? Should I freak out that United could get. 0.2% better international override or delta get $0.50 more an hour per diem?

flyprdu

If we get all that, absolutely yes. My fears are that without that fresh TA from "the heavyweights" to compare directly to it, it will be more of the same for ASA. Too many compromises in too many areas.

It will be much harder to sell a mediocre contract to the pilot group if United had just passed something legendary. And management knows this.

rickair7777

I don't think you've been reading the UA forums lately.

flyprdu

I know they sent it back. I also know that the union and management have egg all over their faces.

Whatever comes back in TA2 is going to be big. It will have to be.

Delta went through this exact same situation in the early 2010s. Ineffective MEC. Bad TA1. Vote down. Clean house. TA2 came back with industry-leading profit sharing. That's how it works.

Mr Magoo

Is this the place to ask about the phone screening? What to expect? Questions asked?

echelon

Polling... Like the phone polling I participated in last week, when negotiations are supposedly in their final stages? The polling that puts you on the spot on the phone instead of allowing for thought-out, written, answers? In which I was asked for my opinion on the economy, because airline pilots are famously experts in economics? And what I thought of the union's proposal, even though the last thing they published is 6 months old and they've made it clear that things have evolved significantly in the last several months? And to rate my confidence in my NC, despite the fact that again, we haven't seen what they're working on? And how I feel about the direction of negotiations in general? How would I know? Again, we haven't seen any written proposal since March, let alone a TA. The "polling" here is BS, and that's the truth.

miker1

You're gonna get caught in the crossfire

Jet J

this question has been answered multiple times on this same thread.

rickair7777

They're probably going to recall their union and NC. Then elect a new regime. Then start all over. Looks like years plural. Unless the company is so worried about pilot angst and recruiting challenges that they just serve up a sweet deal unilaterally. I'm not interested in waiting for that.

Also... when are you getting over the defeatist attitude that AS will never get anything unless the big boys do it first? Do you really need the real pilots at the legacies to do your heavy lifting so you can ride their coat-tails?

My tone there was a bit harsh, that was hyperbole, but do you see the point? Which is it, finally stand up and get a good contract or wait for someone else to do it first?

flyprdu

You're right. I'm skeptical. I was really hoping that the JCBA extension would put Alaska at the end of the cycle. This group has underperformed for decades when it comes to negotiating, and riding some coattails would be an easy way to stiffen up our resolve.

But if we truly are out in front, again, then we'll have to see what they come up with. Consider me cautiously optimistic.

And I hope this group has the balls to submarine the TA if it doesn't pass the smell test.