Alaska Air Hiring
06-13-2022, 11:03 AM
#6402
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Position: A320 Gear Slinger
Posts: 17
06-13-2022, 01:09 PM
#6403
missionary
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: Right seat 787 or missionary
Posts: 98
I mentioned in an earlier post GearBoy's doublespeak, because on one hand he talks about not doubting the union's, and the pilots' resolve, and our willingness to strike to get a contract; but he then turns around in another post and says we'll only get a contract when AS management is good and ready to give us one, and on their terms. THAT, suggests that the effort, unity and resolve thus far demonstrated is pointless - as if our actions have not, and will not have a significant effect on management's calculus on moving the negotiations along. I strongly disagree.
To be clear, achieving success is not a given, and we still have a ways to go, as no management is going to just hand over a great contract on a silver platter. But there is a perfect storm brewing in the favor of labor in general, and for pilots in particular, that will, if we stay the course, and our union faithfully represents our demands, achieve the desired outcome.
Like I said, GB might be stirring the pot just because he can, or he's here to plant seeds of doubt, in the hopes of undermining the resolve of those who might be susceptible. Either way, it makes interesting reading.
To be clear, achieving success is not a given, and we still have a ways to go, as no management is going to just hand over a great contract on a silver platter. But there is a perfect storm brewing in the favor of labor in general, and for pilots in particular, that will, if we stay the course, and our union faithfully represents our demands, achieve the desired outcome.
Like I said, GB might be stirring the pot just because he can, or he's here to plant seeds of doubt, in the hopes of undermining the resolve of those who might be susceptible. Either way, it makes interesting reading.
That’s your word, not mine. Never wrote it. Never intended it.
What you inferred from my written word is on you, not me.
I DO NOT believe the actions of your pilots pointless. On the contrary, I believe that without resolve and unity your cause is lost. Your pilot’s resolve and unity are impressive, unprecedented and a crucial part of the equation. I also believe that your strong resolve and unity is part of what has brought Alaska back to the table.
None the less, how many years have you been in negotiations? Three years? Three years without any real progress? I stand by my assertion that THEY decide when you get a contract, that you get a contract when THEY are ready. That does not mean that pickets, strike votes, and optics cannot influence the process. In the end, they are back because THEY decided that it was time. IMHO, attrition, the ensuing pilot shortage, and your unity and resolve effected their decision to return. Given the totality of the circumstance, THEY decided that it was time and it involved dollar$ and cents.
Like it or not, pilots’ hands are tied by the RLA. Theirs? Not so much. Does that mean pointless? No. It just means that pilots have to use everything they can, within the confines of the RLA, to include knowing their history, the mistakes of the past, and not repeat them.
Now that they’ve returned to the table; is pilot resolve, aptitude, and unity going to be enough to cause them to abandon their time-proven negotiating tactics? Is the attrition and an ensuing pilot shortage enough to prevent their quid pro quo process? You can hope so but I personally doubt it. This is a comment about them, not about pilot abilities, aptitude, unity, or resolve.
BTW, Doublespeak is language used to deceive usually through concealment or misrepresentation of truth.
There is nothing untrue about what I have said, no misrepresentation of truth, no concealment. I stand behind everything I have written.
I am not an Alaska company stooge, I am not trolling. I am not stirring the pot. I am not here intent on sowing seeds of doubt. Contrary to the allegations, mischaracterizations, inferences, and the ad hominem attacks of a select few, no insults intended.
As far as pattern bargaining is concerned, as an industry, we all build on the gains of others. Any deal you guys get, I want it to be as good as possible; for, the rest of us will hopefully build upon your gains, adopt your improvements. So, in that respect we are all negotiating for the industry as a whole.
Timing? It’s always timing and the time is ripe for improvement. It’s long overdue.
Sincerely and Fraternally,
GearBoy,
Your Trolling, Pot-stirring, Seeds of Doubt-sowing, Pot-kettle, Jack-wagon
Last edited by GearBoy; 06-13-2022 at 01:25 PM.
06-13-2022, 01:31 PM
#6404
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 93
Pointless?
That’s your word, not mine. Never wrote it. Never intended it.
What you inferred from my written word is on you, not me.
I DO NOT believe the actions of your pilots pointless. On the contrary, I believe that without resolve and unity your cause is lost. Your pilot’s resolve and unity are impressive, unprecedented and a crucial part of the equation. I also believe that your strong resolve and unity is part of what has brought Alaska back to the table.
None the less, how many years have you been in negotiations? Three years? Three years without any real progress? I stand by my assertion that THEY decide when you get a contract, that you get a contract when THEY are ready. That does not mean that pickets, strike votes, and optics cannot influence the process. In the end, they are back because THEY decided that it was time. IMHO, attrition, the ensuing pilot shortage, and your unity and resolve effected their decision to return. Given the totality of the circumstance, THEY decided that it was time and it involved dollar$ and cents.
Like it or not, pilots’ hands are tied by the RLA. Theirs? Not so much. Does that mean pointless? No. It just means that pilots have to use everything they can, within the confines of the RLA, to include knowing their history, the mistakes of the past, and not repeat them.
Now that they’ve returned to the table; is pilot resolve, aptitude, and unity going to be enough to cause them to abandon their time-proven negotiating tactics? Is the attrition and an ensuing pilot shortage enough to prevent their quid pro quo process? You can hope so but I personally doubt it. This is a comment about them, not about pilot abilities, aptitude, unity, or resolve.
BTW, Doublespeak is language used to deceive usually through concealment or misrepresentation of truth.
There is nothing untrue about what I have said, no misrepresentation of truth, no concealment. I stand behind everything I have written.
I am not an Alaska company stooge, I am not trolling. I am not stirring the pot. I am not here intent on sowing seeds of doubt. Contrary to the allegations, mischaracterizations, inferences, and the ad hominem attacks of a select few, no insults intended.
As far as pattern bargaining is concerned, as an industry, we all build on the gains of others. Any deal you guys get, I want it to be as good as possible; for, the rest of us will hopefully build upon your gains, adopt your improvements. So, in that respect we are all negotiating for the industry as a whole.
Timing? It’s always timing and the time is ripe for improvement. It’s long overdue.
Sincerely and Fraternally,
GearBoy,
Your Trolling, Pot-stirring, Seeds of Doubt-sowing, Pot-kettle, Jack-wagon
That’s your word, not mine. Never wrote it. Never intended it.
What you inferred from my written word is on you, not me.
I DO NOT believe the actions of your pilots pointless. On the contrary, I believe that without resolve and unity your cause is lost. Your pilot’s resolve and unity are impressive, unprecedented and a crucial part of the equation. I also believe that your strong resolve and unity is part of what has brought Alaska back to the table.
None the less, how many years have you been in negotiations? Three years? Three years without any real progress? I stand by my assertion that THEY decide when you get a contract, that you get a contract when THEY are ready. That does not mean that pickets, strike votes, and optics cannot influence the process. In the end, they are back because THEY decided that it was time. IMHO, attrition, the ensuing pilot shortage, and your unity and resolve effected their decision to return. Given the totality of the circumstance, THEY decided that it was time and it involved dollar$ and cents.
Like it or not, pilots’ hands are tied by the RLA. Theirs? Not so much. Does that mean pointless? No. It just means that pilots have to use everything they can, within the confines of the RLA, to include knowing their history, the mistakes of the past, and not repeat them.
Now that they’ve returned to the table; is pilot resolve, aptitude, and unity going to be enough to cause them to abandon their time-proven negotiating tactics? Is the attrition and an ensuing pilot shortage enough to prevent their quid pro quo process? You can hope so but I personally doubt it. This is a comment about them, not about pilot abilities, aptitude, unity, or resolve.
BTW, Doublespeak is language used to deceive usually through concealment or misrepresentation of truth.
There is nothing untrue about what I have said, no misrepresentation of truth, no concealment. I stand behind everything I have written.
I am not an Alaska company stooge, I am not trolling. I am not stirring the pot. I am not here intent on sowing seeds of doubt. Contrary to the allegations, mischaracterizations, inferences, and the ad hominem attacks of a select few, no insults intended.
As far as pattern bargaining is concerned, as an industry, we all build on the gains of others. Any deal you guys get, I want it to be as good as possible; for, the rest of us will hopefully build upon your gains, adopt your improvements. So, in that respect we are all negotiating for the industry as a whole.
Timing? It’s always timing and the time is ripe for improvement. It’s long overdue.
Sincerely and Fraternally,
GearBoy,
Your Trolling, Pot-stirring, Seeds of Doubt-sowing, Pot-kettle, Jack-wagon
06-13-2022, 02:37 PM
#6405
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 84
The very presence of VX undermined two contractual cycles here at Alaska. If we didn’t have the dead weight of a non union carrier that paid Captains around $90.00/hr we may have been able to make farther gains. The Company, of course sites VX as “The Competition” and we had to remain competitive by working for a discount. VX did nothing in its entire history to advance this Career. Just a fact.
Simply, wow.
Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk
06-14-2022, 09:42 AM
#6408
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: The Jet
Posts: 1,065
The very presence of VX undermined two contractual cycles here at Alaska. If we didn’t have the dead weight of a non union carrier that paid Captains around $90.00/hr we may have been able to make farther gains. The Company, of course sites VX as “The Competition” and we had to remain competitive by working for a discount. VX did nothing in its entire history to advance this Career. Just a fact.
You are blaming 30 years of spineless and pathetic work rules, pay, QOL and a complete and total lack of substance in multiple CBAs on an airline that AS bought a few years ago? Message me an address, I will send you a mirror as it seems you need one...
06-14-2022, 04:21 PM
#6410
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Captain B-737
Posts: 290
If you think ANY of this is true, that explains why you would stay at a sub par airline with a frankly embarrassing contract and not fight for a better one, or leave. AND you are obviously too clueless to understand that you should have.
Simply, wow.
Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk
Simply, wow.
Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk
Of course they used you AGAINST us. It’s Only now that you’re the one living (once again, despite the gains of the rest of the industry), the consequences and repercussions of the long shadow cast by a grossly under paid, non-union VX pilot group, do you become Joe Hill.
Nice try. Look in the Mirror and own the damage VX did to us. VX pilots never did themselves, or any other group, any favors. Welcome to the contract you helped shape Joe.
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