ShyGuy

Scope protections at jetBlue and Spirit didn't keep their pilots there either. Are we still pretending a scope clause is what's keeping pilots from leaving here? Bet you a Starbucks Frappucino that even after a new contract we will still have a decent amount of attrition. As a newhire who is younger than 35 with a 30+ year career, why stay at ANY airline except the big 3 legacy carriers? Why bind yourself to a domestic-only narrowbody airline with low retirements and slow movement, when they could go to a legacy airline and get the best of all worlds? Fleets, bases, widebodies, retirements and movement?

I'm just saying our problems aren't unique. Any passenger airline that isn't the big 3 legacy carriers is facing the same issues and the same harsh truth - they can't offer a career that the big 3 can.

rickair7777

This.

And no realistic CBA enhancements will change it much either. Good CBAs can probably help retain middle-aged pilots.

9mikemike

Never mentioned attrition….The point of the exercise is to compare the cost in negotiating capital….We have to still play catch up on so much in our contract that we will only get to where they are.

CordovaCA

ShyGuy only talks to new hires through pro stands and has no idea what they want. They want a contract. Go ask them. I've talked to full classes recently. It is important.

ShyGuy

You wrote:

”Bottom tier narrow-body domestic carriers. No surprise that pilots seeking a job at a major airline would leave.”


All passenger airlines that are not Delta/United/AA are facing the same problem, regardless of how good their current contract is.

ShyGuy

I’m not on pro stands.

Of course they want a contract. As do I and pretty much everyone else here. Question is, does it enact a behavioral change of stopping updating apps to leave here for those < 5 yrs? Doubtful. Say we get the entire 100% ALPA ask. Why stay here for $320/hr when we retire only ~700 next 10 years still be on the same narrowbody only fleet in the same 5 bases?

Singlecoil

Which is why the total career compensation offered by Alaska and the other narrow body carriers needs to be competitive with the big three.
That starts with hourly rates. Our 737/320 rate should be higher than the rates at Delta, United, or American, because we will never be able to bid widebodies.
Alaska gets the benefit of a single fleet type after 2023 and gets to enjoy those cost savings in reserves, training staff, parts, sims, etc. Who bears the cost of having a single fleet?
The pilots do. At the big three, you can bid down to the 737 and enjoy super seniority if you want. You don't have to chase the widebody, but you pay a financial penalty.
At Alaska, you don't get to make that choice. You are stuck on one type. As someone who will never be senior enough to hold summer vacation at Alaska, wouldn't it be nice if I had the option to bid a piece of equipment that may not pay the highest, but the quality of life would be much better on.
Delta should be telling its pilots, "Look you can't have Alaska rates, they have a single fleet and the economics are different for them."
Alaska could be a career airline again, but a lot has to change.

9mikemike

We dropped the ball hard on that when the MD 80 and the 737-200 went away…We are the only carrier in our peer group that not only aligns on one fleet(2023) but also on one time zone…There is no possibility to enhance career expectations. There may be a couple hundred positions in training/fcf and management but thats it…..Alaska Airlines inc. gets to have their cake and eat it too

climbviathesid

How many classes a month/how many in class? Thanks!

Miltocivil

Barely enough to cover attrition and upgrades