Virgin America Latest and Greatest
12-20-2015, 12:51 PM
#1861
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,322
The above is a decent post. It's a good clarification.
Yes, FOs at a major should be paid better and be able to afford a better lifestyle, but they currently don't at VX and he's just pointing out what should expected, that's fair.
If I was 27, I'd go in a second. But I'm not... And I have a family.
Yes, FOs at a major should be paid better and be able to afford a better lifestyle, but they currently don't at VX and he's just pointing out what should expected, that's fair.
If I was 27, I'd go in a second. But I'm not... And I have a family.
12-20-2015, 07:25 PM
#1862
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,938
When I was on first year pay it was 44/hr on a 70 hr guarantee. I commuted about 6 months and then moved to SFO with the wife (no kid at the time) and rented a 1 bd/1ba for $1500. It was expensive but I also knew I wouldn't live in CA long term. The NY base opened up and since I used to live in Jersey I took it and moved.
It's sad that this thread is now selling VX as only viable if you are regional FO and/or 27 years old. I did meet those specs and came here at 27 but I will say I was the youngest in the class and the rest of the guys were in their 30s and 40s (one or two in the 50s). In a couple months I'll be 4 years here at 31 and makes me about half way up the FO list. I also lucked out in the hiring cycle in that there was a ton of hiring in 2012 and so I was only on reserve for 1 month. Guys hired just a few months after me were then infinitely stuck on reserve, until recently. So that right there is a huge QOL difference for both FOs with the only difference that one was hired just a couple months later.
The CA side is a similar story, and anyone hired in 2006 or 2007 as a 8 year CA is pretty much living large. Most of those guys upgraded very quickly. Either instantly or about 12 months. They spent little time on reserve and so their experience here varies greatly than most others. Guys hired in early 2010 who took the 2.5 yr upgrade in mid 2012 were then stuck on reserve and have been stuck as such 3.5 years later. Our reserve has changed a little bit over time, but it's still not enough. It was a never a reserve system that was meant to be lived under for a long time. With the growth we had most guys saw a couple months and then off reserve. But in 3rd quarter 2012 all that changed with the Airbus order deferrals. Now everyone froze in their current position and the reserves were stuck indefinitely. It was quickly learned our reserve was not meant to be lived on for several years.
Is growth an answer for reserve issues? Maybe, but that only works so as long as airplanes are coming and there is hiring/upgrading. But all that disappears when the planes stop coming. So IMO we need a reserve system that one can actually live by for several years. I'm still surprised at the number of CAs I fly with that think reserve isn't (or won't be) a big issue for CBA negotiations. I can tell you right now as a mid-level FO, I'm looking very closely at potential reserve rule negotations/changes. Some of these 2007 hires are just disconnected from the reality of reserve. Unlike their time, by the time a FO around me upgrades, we will be on reserve for a long time. The current batch upgrading for 10 planes, theoretically, will get everybody off reserve that is sitting reserve before these 10 planes came. Rinse/repeat for the next batch of 10 planes. But the next batch of 10 planes is spread over 21 months! This current batch is spread over 12 months. Do the math. Fact remains the FOs upgrading, especially for the 2nd batch of 10 planes the NEOs, WILL be on reserve a long time. And keep in mind, we have to plan on current information. And that is no planes for 2019, and then the 30 from 2020-2022. And most likely those 10 319s will be gone. So it's not necessarily 30 net gain. My point being, by the time I get to upgrade, I'll be looking at reserve for quite some time, and it's in my best interest to put some capital on reserve to make it better. Of course the guys hired in 2007 wont be affected by reserve rules, and depending on who you ask, some of them actually take offense that negotiating capital would be spent on something that has zero affect on them and doesn't increase their QOL. *Sigh* can't win 'em all.
My point being, to every FO here who isnt about to upgrade with these 10 planes (so basically anyone hired after Dec 2010), plan on being a CA reserve for quite some time and when the time comes for the survey, make sure you make your interests known about reserve - if you care.
It's sad that this thread is now selling VX as only viable if you are regional FO and/or 27 years old. I did meet those specs and came here at 27 but I will say I was the youngest in the class and the rest of the guys were in their 30s and 40s (one or two in the 50s). In a couple months I'll be 4 years here at 31 and makes me about half way up the FO list. I also lucked out in the hiring cycle in that there was a ton of hiring in 2012 and so I was only on reserve for 1 month. Guys hired just a few months after me were then infinitely stuck on reserve, until recently. So that right there is a huge QOL difference for both FOs with the only difference that one was hired just a couple months later.
The CA side is a similar story, and anyone hired in 2006 or 2007 as a 8 year CA is pretty much living large. Most of those guys upgraded very quickly. Either instantly or about 12 months. They spent little time on reserve and so their experience here varies greatly than most others. Guys hired in early 2010 who took the 2.5 yr upgrade in mid 2012 were then stuck on reserve and have been stuck as such 3.5 years later. Our reserve has changed a little bit over time, but it's still not enough. It was a never a reserve system that was meant to be lived under for a long time. With the growth we had most guys saw a couple months and then off reserve. But in 3rd quarter 2012 all that changed with the Airbus order deferrals. Now everyone froze in their current position and the reserves were stuck indefinitely. It was quickly learned our reserve was not meant to be lived on for several years.
Is growth an answer for reserve issues? Maybe, but that only works so as long as airplanes are coming and there is hiring/upgrading. But all that disappears when the planes stop coming. So IMO we need a reserve system that one can actually live by for several years. I'm still surprised at the number of CAs I fly with that think reserve isn't (or won't be) a big issue for CBA negotiations. I can tell you right now as a mid-level FO, I'm looking very closely at potential reserve rule negotations/changes. Some of these 2007 hires are just disconnected from the reality of reserve. Unlike their time, by the time a FO around me upgrades, we will be on reserve for a long time. The current batch upgrading for 10 planes, theoretically, will get everybody off reserve that is sitting reserve before these 10 planes came. Rinse/repeat for the next batch of 10 planes. But the next batch of 10 planes is spread over 21 months! This current batch is spread over 12 months. Do the math. Fact remains the FOs upgrading, especially for the 2nd batch of 10 planes the NEOs, WILL be on reserve a long time. And keep in mind, we have to plan on current information. And that is no planes for 2019, and then the 30 from 2020-2022. And most likely those 10 319s will be gone. So it's not necessarily 30 net gain. My point being, by the time I get to upgrade, I'll be looking at reserve for quite some time, and it's in my best interest to put some capital on reserve to make it better. Of course the guys hired in 2007 wont be affected by reserve rules, and depending on who you ask, some of them actually take offense that negotiating capital would be spent on something that has zero affect on them and doesn't increase their QOL. *Sigh* can't win 'em all.
My point being, to every FO here who isnt about to upgrade with these 10 planes (so basically anyone hired after Dec 2010), plan on being a CA reserve for quite some time and when the time comes for the survey, make sure you make your interests known about reserve - if you care.
12-21-2015, 10:18 AM
#1864
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Port Bus
Posts: 725
Totally weird right. This Lonesomesky person is someone within the company told to do this, not a Virgin pilot . The company must be looking for 27 yr. old regional FO's that live in California. Propaganda.....
12-21-2015, 10:43 AM
#1865
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 492
I also don't understand the Hotels comment he made. I thought the crews stay at airport Hiltons everywhere they go and are even losing their "nice" hotels which are in downtown Seattle and in FLL.
Maybe they are "first class" hotels if you're used to staying at Red Roof Inns during training or La Quintas at your previous regional. I heard in Vegas, they get dumped off the strip and Virgin Atlantic gets put in the Cosmo.
Maybe they are "first class" hotels if you're used to staying at Red Roof Inns during training or La Quintas at your previous regional. I heard in Vegas, they get dumped off the strip and Virgin Atlantic gets put in the Cosmo.
12-21-2015, 12:40 PM
#1866
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 784
Maybe he came from a real crappy regional or some flea bag cargo company. My old regional stayed at the same types of hotels. Hilton, Sheraton, Marriott, crown plaza, they all the same to me and relatively standard for most airlines.
12-21-2015, 01:43 PM
#1867
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: A320
Posts: 236
I would call our hotels decent "Hilton" class in pretty good locations with a few exceptions in both directions of neutral. On one side you have the Sheraton in OGG and the FLL hotel and on the other yu have psp and bos.
I personally have no complaints about our hotels, but I wouldn't make them a reason to come to VX either.
-4
I personally have no complaints about our hotels, but I wouldn't make them a reason to come to VX either.
-4
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