Originally Posted by OCCP

You said no one is drinking the red kool aid? Did I read that correctly?

Originally Posted by Packrat

He isn't drinking it. Its hooked up to an IV bag so it can bypass his digestive system entirely.

Of course, he could be an HR guy using his first post as a recruiting manifesto.

Originally Posted by Packrat

He isn't drinking it. Its hooked up to an IV bag so it can bypass his digestive system entirely.

Of course, he could be an HR guy using his first post as a recruiting manifesto.

Originally Posted by LonesomeSky

1) In any industry the best product plus the lowest cost almost always equals success. I'd be careful using absolute statements, especially in the airlines.

2) At a legacy, you're basically waiting for the old guard to die off and vacate the left seat. To me, that doesn't seem healthy. Why is that not healthy? That's the nature of any seniority system. People get old and leave. I'll tell you one thing, it's more certain than hoping for possible aircraft orders or changes. Guys retiring is NOT going to change. (Other than possible retiring at 67.)

3) I' not saying it's perfect, we still don't see eye to eye on many issues, but it's way better than other places where management gets their payout not from running the airline well but from scamming the company. Yeah, that happens... but CEO's who mismanage companies also get fired.

4) Our guests still love us. I've worked at VX for close to 8 years. Everyday I still get one or more "This is my favorite airline. You guys are great. I never want to fly on anyone else." Branding has to be worth something. I'd like to think you were right on this one... but Orbitz, Expedia, Travelocity etc seem to have a stronghold on the budget conscious. Hopefully this proves true for VX's sake. The product is worth the price to many, but only a certain amount, which will limit it's growth. You have to recognize that it is a niche in the industry.

5) California... This is a California based airline. Contrary to what the national media would have you believe, California is rich. It's like a whole different economy than the rest of the country with tech, entertainment, and tourism. VX is the airline of the 1%. And, if you're still single, you can marry into this wealth. Plenty of ladies out here earning $200K plus per year and/or in line to inherit a $2 million dollar house from their parents.
This is just pure nonsense. First, show one fact that backs up CA is rich (as a state, on a balace sheet). Second, are seriously contending that one should consider working at VX because they have a higher chance of meeting a woman that makes more money or has a trust fund? YHTBFSM. If this isn't a joke, then at this point I've lost all respect for this post. And finally, it's a slap in the face to the 10% of pilots that are actually female. Unless, of course, you're suggesting they may also be interested said high income ladies...

6) The honeymoon is over. No one is drinking the Red KoolAid post IPO. But, you know what, people still like working here and they do a great job. Everyone is friendly, gate agents, FA's, mechanics, pilots, your sim instructor. It's really a nice place to work. And, all that good will shows through in our guest experience. About the only thing I believe to be true. It does seem like a fun, friendly place to work.

7) Schedules and Hotels... Once you're line holding, the schedules are awesome, efficient with lots of days off (never less than 15, lots of months 16 or 17). Our hotels too are great. Only the best. When I first started here I was afraid the bell man would toss me out for looking to poor in the lobby. Eventually you get used to the first class treatment. Subject to change. Like you've said, you can't base your decisions on where to go based on the future... "it assumes that nothing will change over the coming years". I hope it stays the same and am happy you currently get the hotels you deserve.

Originally Posted by PotatoChip

Originally Posted by LonesomeSky

A second year FO can afford a tiny apartment in the city and that's your ticket in. Granted, it's not for everyone. If you need square footage live in Dallas or Atlanta.

You make some good points otherwise. I also have some counter arguments but I gotta run.

Originally Posted by LonesomeSky

This is good info. Straight math says a pilot hired today at VX wouldn't upgrade based on growth alone. Instead, upgrade would depend on a combination of growth and retirements. We have a relatively young pilot group at VX. It could be awhile.

That's the conventional logic using the only available information, but there's a problem when you plan your career that way, it assumes that nothing will change over the coming years. I always get a laugh out of the guys who make those spreadsheets of expected compensation at various carriers out over years and decades. They say "look, if you go to Delta, you'll make $4 million dollars more over the course of your career than if you go to this other airline." Those projections are close to meaningless because they don't take into account uncertainty and the unpredictable variables that the future holds.

VX is an airline for gamblers and risk takers. Yes, we are small, our pay lags the industry, and our future is far from assured, but we also have a lot of good things going for us -- stuff that goes beyond the basic math. If you're relatively young, and don't need your career to payout tomorrow, I'd consider VX for these reasons.

1) We offer the best product in the industry and our costs are low. VX's cost per seat mile dropped below Southwests in Q1 of 2015 and it is projected to only get lower as we take delivery of more aircraft. In any industry the best product plus the lowest cost almost always equals success.

2) 10% year over year growth... Yes, the projected growth based on current orders isn't enough to put a new hire over the upgrade hump, but where else do you see 10% yearly growth? Growth means a happy airline with receding costs. At a legacy, you're basically waiting for the old guard to die off and vacate the left seat. To me, that doesn't seem healthy.

3) Our primary investors and management are stuck with us. Only 25% of VX stock is on the publicly traded, the rest is still held by the original investors: a smallish hedge fund called Cyrus Capital, Virgin Group, and members of our management team. This is a big deal, because unlike other airlines, a small group of investors runs the show. The big players at VX don't make their fortune unless we build something of lasting value. And, if they screw it up, they lose $900 million of their own dollars. Nowhere else are the board of directors, the investors, management, and employee's interests in such close alignment. I' not saying it's perfect, we still don't see eye to eye on many issues, but it's way better than other places where management gets their payout not from running the airline well but from scamming the company.

4) Our guests still love us. I've worked at VX for close to 8 years. Everyday I still get one or more "This is my favorite airline. You guys are great. I never want to fly on anyone else." Branding has to be worth something.

5) California... This is a California based airline. Contrary to what the national media would have you believe, California is rich. It's like a whole different economy than the rest of the country with tech, entertainment, and tourism. VX is the airline of the 1%. And, if you're still single, you can marry into this wealth. Plenty of ladies out here earning $200K plus per year and/or in line to inherit a $2 million dollar house from their parents.

6) The honeymoon is over. No one is drinking the Red KoolAid post IPO. But, you know what, people still like working here and they do a great job. Everyone is friendly, gate agents, FA's, mechanics, pilots, your sim instructor. It's really a nice place to work. And, all that good will shows through in our guest experience.

7) Schedules and Hotels... Once you're line holding, the schedules are awesome, efficient with lots of days off (never less than 15, lots of months 16 or 17). Our hotels too are great. Only the best. When I first started here I was afraid the bell man would toss me out for looking to poor in the lobby. Eventually you get used to the first class treatment.

If you want to be a part of the biggest airline in the world and you need to know that your payscale is the best in the industry, go work somewhere else. But if you're looking for steady forward momentum at an airline where everyone believes service is still important, then maybe check out VX. For decades Southwest and FedEx were after-thoughts, the places you'd go if no other airline would have you, then after years of slow steady growth, all of a sudden the pilots who chose those airlines looked like geniuses. VX has a long long ways to go to get to that level, but it's possible. Go to a legacy and you know exactly what you're going to get.

Originally Posted by Pogey Bait

Holy F'ing cheerleader....people this is not one of our pilots. Pay no attention, move on. 2nd post...you have zero merit. Troll, pun take your pick.

Originally Posted by Bugaboo

He is a Captain with enough seniority to be just enough out of touch....all is well for an 8 year Captain at a company thats been flying for just over 8 years. A guy who has been around for 3 years obviously has a different take.
Obviously oblivious.....gonna have to remember that statement😄