AS/HA SLI Discussion
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 356
Factors to be considered in constructing a fair and equitable integratedseniority list, in no particular order and with no particular weight, shall include but not be limited to the following:- Career expectations.- Longevity. - Status and category.
Will status and category be considered? Of course. But you're fooling yourself if you don't think an arbitrator isn't going to consider the big picture. Alaska is a much stronger and secure company. That will carry weight. There really isn't any huge benefit to the Alaska pilot group resulting from this merger. Hawaiian pilots are really the main beneficiaries. I wouldn't hold my breathe for much of a bump in seniority or long lasting fences.
Will status and category be considered? Of course. But you're fooling yourself if you don't think an arbitrator isn't going to consider the big picture. Alaska is a much stronger and secure company. That will carry weight. There really isn't any huge benefit to the Alaska pilot group resulting from this merger. Hawaiian pilots are really the main beneficiaries. I wouldn't hold my breathe for much of a bump in seniority or long lasting fences.
"Bump in seniority"? What does that even mean? HA flies WB planes, and AS doesn't. How was AS/VX merged under policy? Did AS get a "bump" for being stronger financially? Where are two pilots that had 8 years longevity at AS and VX on the list? Are they together or did the VX pilot with 8 years longevity get a "bump" because they had a higher status and category?
#33
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Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 356
Good luck getting any 787s that HA doesn't already have on order. United has 150 on order and Boeing is already 14 behind schedule. Ordering a 787 today is going to be a 2032 delivery at the earliest, if that.
#34
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Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 729
If BA can keep the 787 production at 6 airframes per month, HA will have 10 787s by 2030. The next one should arrive in 2025. The following may arrive in 2026 if there are no delays. It seems any chance for growth lies entirely on the Airbus side. Used 321s or used 330s. Possibly new 330 NEOs?
#35
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 489
Here is a helpful spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...CRaT-iqgo/edit
If BA can keep the 787 production at 6 airframes per month, HA will have 10 787s by 2030. The next one should arrive in 2025. The following may arrive in 2026 if there are no delays. It seems any chance for growth lies entirely on the Airbus side. Used 321s or used 330s. Possibly new 330 NEOs?
If BA can keep the 787 production at 6 airframes per month, HA will have 10 787s by 2030. The next one should arrive in 2025. The following may arrive in 2026 if there are no delays. It seems any chance for growth lies entirely on the Airbus side. Used 321s or used 330s. Possibly new 330 NEOs?
#36
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Joined APC: Dec 2023
Position: FAKES
Posts: 86
Its literally codified into ALPA Merger Policy and used in the last 2 ALPA mergers with widebody planes.
NWA/DAL has 4 "status and categories"...widebody captains, narrow body captains, widebody FOs and narrow body FOs
UAL/CAL had 6 "status and categories". widebody captains, midbody captains (757/767), narrow body captains, widebody FOs, midbody FOs and narrow body FOs (plus both furloughed CAL/UAL pilots)
Both of these are publicly sercheable. Arbitrators are going to give HA pilots a "bump" in seniority because of their widebody planes.
If AS was merging with Horizon, would you just be ok with the 737 being treated the same as a E-175? I'm guessing not.
Neither would an arbitrator.
NWA/DAL has 4 "status and categories"...widebody captains, narrow body captains, widebody FOs and narrow body FOs
UAL/CAL had 6 "status and categories". widebody captains, midbody captains (757/767), narrow body captains, widebody FOs, midbody FOs and narrow body FOs (plus both furloughed CAL/UAL pilots)
Both of these are publicly sercheable. Arbitrators are going to give HA pilots a "bump" in seniority because of their widebody planes.
If AS was merging with Horizon, would you just be ok with the 737 being treated the same as a E-175? I'm guessing not.
Neither would an arbitrator.
And you must know that there's a much bigger pay disparity between 737 and the E175 then there is between the 737 and your beloved WB's. Do you mean to say that everything that isn't WB is "regional?" Do you mean to be that condescending? SLI will be what it is per precedent and current circumstances, but looking down your nose at your new coworkers won't win you many friends.
DOH is fair. The only other argument that is "fair" for me is that HA takes a hit because their company was doomed. What will likely happen is that HA gets a "bump" because of WBs (as undeserved as it may be), and then takes a hit for their company's financial condition, and we'll arrive at something that resembles DOH anyway. I'm no SLI expert, but that's my gut feeling.
Besides, who really cares about seniority until it's someone in your base, in your seat, on your equipment. If the 737 is as bad as you say, my spot should be pretty safe. You HA dudes think we want your WBs, when it's really we don't want you kicking us out of our bases. 10 year fence and done. lol.
#37
Here is a helpful spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...CRaT-iqgo/edit
If BA can keep the 787 production at 6 airframes per month, HA will have 10 787s by 2030. The next one should arrive in 2025. The following may arrive in 2026 if there are no delays. It seems any chance for growth lies entirely on the Airbus side. Used 321s or used 330s. Possibly new 330 NEOs?
If BA can keep the 787 production at 6 airframes per month, HA will have 10 787s by 2030. The next one should arrive in 2025. The following may arrive in 2026 if there are no delays. It seems any chance for growth lies entirely on the Airbus side. Used 321s or used 330s. Possibly new 330 NEOs?
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 489
I think you’d agree that for Alaska to even consider ordering new or buying used 321s would require a seismic shift in philosophy, and the thought of getting more 330s is simply beyond their scope of consideration.
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