FriendlyPilot

Consideration doesn't mean "think about it". The arbitrators have to use it and explain how they intrgrated it into final award. The "big picture" is that an airline that only flies 737s and an airline with 2 different WB types just merged. They may give a lower percentage weighting toward status and category, but its going to be used because its written into the policy. Alaska being a "much larger and secure company" won't likely matter any amount. Merger policy is an ALPA process, and ALPA doesn't care that one company was run by management more efficiently than another one.

"Bump in seniority"? What does that even mean? HA flies WB planes, and AS doesn't. How was AS/VX merged under policy? Did AS get a "bump" for being stronger financially? Where are two pilots that had 8 years longevity at AS and VX on the list? Are they together or did the VX pilot with 8 years longevity get a "bump" because they had a higher status and category?

rickair7777

This thread is for SLI discussion. Some of us are going to disagree about some things, but please keep it ciivil.

FriendlyPilot

Good luck getting any 787s that HA doesn't already have on order. United has 150 on order and Boeing is already 14 behind schedule. Ordering a 787 today is going to be a 2032 delivery at the earliest, if that.

GoodJet

Here is a helpful spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...CRaT-iqgo/edit

If BA can keep the 787 production at 6 airframes per month, HA will have 10 787s by 2030. The next one should arrive in 2025. The following may arrive in 2026 if there are no delays. It seems any chance for growth lies entirely on the Airbus side. Used 321s or used 330s. Possibly new 330 NEOs?

flysnoopy76

Did I read your post correctly, new 330 NEOs think we all know that’s not happening.

Yakattack

Apples and oranges, dude. Horizon is a regional airline. Pilots from QX would come to AS with the expectation of going to the bottom of the seniority list. Nobody questions that. When I came to AS from my regional, I didn't expect it to work any other way. Hawaiian and Alaska are two major (legacy, technically) airlines that are integrating. Take United, Delta, American for example. You would not expect a newhire FO in a WB to be granted a higher seniority over a 737 FO hired weeks or months earlier just by virtue of their equipment, would you? Yet that's what you're advocating for, without any strife at all. I'm not a huge fan of that mindset. The ergonomics and lack of cockpit amenities argument is ancillary but serves to further poison the well.

And you must know that there's a much bigger pay disparity between 737 and the E175 then there is between the 737 and your beloved WB's. Do you mean to say that everything that isn't WB is "regional?" Do you mean to be that condescending? SLI will be what it is per precedent and current circumstances, but looking down your nose at your new coworkers won't win you many friends.

DOH is fair. The only other argument that is "fair" for me is that HA takes a hit because their company was doomed. What will likely happen is that HA gets a "bump" because of WBs (as undeserved as it may be), and then takes a hit for their company's financial condition, and we'll arrive at something that resembles DOH anyway. I'm no SLI expert, but that's my gut feeling.

Besides, who really cares about seniority until it's someone in your base, in your seat, on your equipment. If the 737 is as bad as you say, my spot should be pretty safe. You HA dudes think we want your WBs, when it's really we don't want you kicking us out of our bases. 10 year fence and done. lol.

Jet J

supposedly we have 10 a320s in the desert still.

Yakattack

I posted something but the system told me a moderator needed to approve it. Was it too incendiary?

GoodJet

In that case our only hope for growth would be 321s or 330s then...

flysnoopy76

I think you’d agree that for Alaska to even consider ordering new or buying used 321s would require a seismic shift in philosophy, and the thought of getting more 330s is simply beyond their scope of consideration.