AS/HA SLI Discussion
09-25-2024, 09:14 PM
#211
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Posts: 28
Actually... OTZ does have a point which I had not considered.
The company *really* wants to expedite the full SOC integration to realize enhanced synergies blah, blah, blah. That can't happen until after SLI, so...
It's not impossible that the company intends to offer a generous JCBA, but condition it on a mutually agreed SLI. Technically the SLI does not absolutely *have* to go to arbitration, that's just how it always plays out in the real world. The MEC's could negotiate and agree to an SLI, and maybe a juicy JCBA would be the carrot to get it over the finish line.
I also hadn't considered a blended rate, but that can and has been done (UPS had that at one point?). Company would prefer it, especially with so many fleets, since it eliminates the need to cross bid for $, instead folks would only switch planes for domicile or schedule.
The company *really* wants to expedite the full SOC integration to realize enhanced synergies blah, blah, blah. That can't happen until after SLI, so...
It's not impossible that the company intends to offer a generous JCBA, but condition it on a mutually agreed SLI. Technically the SLI does not absolutely *have* to go to arbitration, that's just how it always plays out in the real world. The MEC's could negotiate and agree to an SLI, and maybe a juicy JCBA would be the carrot to get it over the finish line.
I also hadn't considered a blended rate, but that can and has been done (UPS had that at one point?). Company would prefer it, especially with so many fleets, since it eliminates the need to cross bid for $, instead folks would only switch planes for domicile or schedule.
09-25-2024, 10:35 PM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 194
There are 3,600 AS pilots 1,200 HA pilots…. I’m pretty sure we have the votes to pay band this whole thing. I mean since no AS pilot will ever hold a WB, why do we care what they pay. We should only care what NB’s pay… One rate both planes. We can have the highest NB rates in the world and the lowest WB rates.
09-26-2024, 12:10 AM
#214
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 1,212
Actually... OTZ does have a point which I had not considered.
The company *really* wants to expedite the full SOC integration to realize enhanced synergies blah, blah, blah. That can't happen until after SLI, so...
It's not impossible that the company intends to offer a generous JCBA, but condition it on a mutually agreed SLI. Technically the SLI does not absolutely *have* to go to arbitration, that's just how it always plays out in the real world. The MEC's could negotiate and agree to an SLI, and maybe a juicy JCBA would be the carrot to get it over the finish line.
I also hadn't considered a blended rate, but that can and has been done (UPS had that at one point?). Company would prefer it, especially with so many fleets, since it eliminates the need to cross bid for $, instead folks would only switch planes for domicile or schedule.
The company *really* wants to expedite the full SOC integration to realize enhanced synergies blah, blah, blah. That can't happen until after SLI, so...
It's not impossible that the company intends to offer a generous JCBA, but condition it on a mutually agreed SLI. Technically the SLI does not absolutely *have* to go to arbitration, that's just how it always plays out in the real world. The MEC's could negotiate and agree to an SLI, and maybe a juicy JCBA would be the carrot to get it over the finish line.
I also hadn't considered a blended rate, but that can and has been done (UPS had that at one point?). Company would prefer it, especially with so many fleets, since it eliminates the need to cross bid for $, instead folks would only switch planes for domicile or schedule.
09-26-2024, 12:12 AM
#215
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 1,212
OTZeagle1, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
09-26-2024, 02:18 AM
#216
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,933
Actually... OTZ does have a point which I had not considered.
The company *really* wants to expedite the full SOC integration to realize enhanced synergies blah, blah, blah. That can't happen until after SLI, so...
It's not impossible that the company intends to offer a generous JCBA, but condition it on a mutually agreed SLI. Technically the SLI does not absolutely *have* to go to arbitration, that's just how it always plays out in the real world. The MEC's could negotiate and agree to an SLI, and maybe a juicy JCBA would be the carrot to get it over the finish line.
I also hadn't considered a blended rate, but that can and has been done (UPS had that at one point?). Company would prefer it, especially with so many fleets, since it eliminates the need to cross bid for $, instead folks would only switch planes for domicile or schedule.
The company *really* wants to expedite the full SOC integration to realize enhanced synergies blah, blah, blah. That can't happen until after SLI, so...
It's not impossible that the company intends to offer a generous JCBA, but condition it on a mutually agreed SLI. Technically the SLI does not absolutely *have* to go to arbitration, that's just how it always plays out in the real world. The MEC's could negotiate and agree to an SLI, and maybe a juicy JCBA would be the carrot to get it over the finish line.
I also hadn't considered a blended rate, but that can and has been done (UPS had that at one point?). Company would prefer it, especially with so many fleets, since it eliminates the need to cross bid for $, instead folks would only switch planes for domicile or schedule.
We couldn’t agree to a NB only merger SLI with AS/VX, what makes you think the 2 groups will mutually agree to a SLI? Now with WBs involved, there’s a near 0% chance this gets figured out mutually.
In fact, when was the last time that happened, let’s say since the AA/TWA debacle? Southwest/AirTran because it wasn’t ALPA^2 and because AAI pilots felt threatened.
09-26-2024, 04:42 AM
#217
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 685
I get it, that some kind of fence of 3-5 years for the WB fleet might be reasonable to expect, but 20 years?!!
Twenty, ten, or even 5 years ago, I agree, most at AS never envisaged that the opportunity to fly WB might even be in the cards. In recent years however, as we've seen this company consistently print money, and given their desire and indeed requirement for growth to remain competitive, there was the increasing sentiment, and dare I say, expectation, that inevitably, AS would need to put on their big boy pants, and among other things, get into more International flying, and the aquisiton of WB aircraft.
The idea therefore, that for the next 20 years, current AS pilots would be prohibited from flying WBs, especially those not already on order by HA, sounds as unfair, as no fences at all being put up around WBs in our eventual SLI... They're two extremes that are just too extreme.
Twenty, ten, or even 5 years ago, I agree, most at AS never envisaged that the opportunity to fly WB might even be in the cards. In recent years however, as we've seen this company consistently print money, and given their desire and indeed requirement for growth to remain competitive, there was the increasing sentiment, and dare I say, expectation, that inevitably, AS would need to put on their big boy pants, and among other things, get into more International flying, and the aquisiton of WB aircraft.
The idea therefore, that for the next 20 years, current AS pilots would be prohibited from flying WBs, especially those not already on order by HA, sounds as unfair, as no fences at all being put up around WBs in our eventual SLI... They're two extremes that are just too extreme.
Last edited by All Bizniz; 09-26-2024 at 05:07 AM.
09-26-2024, 06:45 AM
#218
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,297
I'm sure the company would love that, however both MEC's would have to agree to the SLI, and I don't think they would ever do that for fear of angry mobs with pitchforks coming after them. One of the biggest reasons the MEC's don't come to agreements on SLI is when an arbitrator decides on a list, the MEC's don't have to own it. You'd have to pay way more money and give way better general working conditions to make up for the feeling of loss in seniority in this industry.
With a generous JCBA offer on the table maybe the MEC's could see their way to an SLI. It would have to be pretty generous though.
09-26-2024, 06:50 AM
#219
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,297
Rick. You’ve been inconsistent on two items. You said no way the MECs will not take part in any SLI. You also said there is no such things as base fences in the Honolulu discussion but then you say west coast needs them. Maybe you are getting updated source data points, but west coast basing and blended rates seem tease self interest against objectivity. Maybe again I’m missing some new data points.
Blended rates is pretty far out there too, but again not completely unprecedented.
We're on a thought experiment here, with regard to expedited negotiated SLI... it often helps to firm up your understanding of reality by exploring the edges.
09-26-2024, 06:55 AM
#220
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,297
I get it, that some kind of fence of 3-5 years for the WB fleet might be reasonable to expect, but 20 years?!!
Twenty, ten, or even 5 years ago, I agree, most at AS never envisaged that the opportunity to fly WB might even be in the cards. In recent years however, as we've seen this company consistently print money, and given their desire and indeed requirement for growth to remain competitive, there was the increasing sentiment, and dare I say, expectation, that inevitably, AS would need to put on their big boy pants, and among other things, get into more International flying, and the aquisiton of WB aircraft.
The idea therefore, that for the next 20 years, current AS pilots would be prohibited from flying WBs, especially those not already on order by HA, sounds as unfair, as no fences at all being put up around WBs in our eventual SLI... They're two extremes that are just too extreme.
Twenty, ten, or even 5 years ago, I agree, most at AS never envisaged that the opportunity to fly WB might even be in the cards. In recent years however, as we've seen this company consistently print money, and given their desire and indeed requirement for growth to remain competitive, there was the increasing sentiment, and dare I say, expectation, that inevitably, AS would need to put on their big boy pants, and among other things, get into more International flying, and the aquisiton of WB aircraft.
The idea therefore, that for the next 20 years, current AS pilots would be prohibited from flying WBs, especially those not already on order by HA, sounds as unfair, as no fences at all being put up around WBs in our eventual SLI... They're two extremes that are just too extreme.
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