rickair7777

I don't know for sure, but tend to assume that where DOH is calculated that VX pilots will be granted a virtual DOH in keeping with their AS seniority counterparts.

Otherwise, VX pilots would get penalized twice, once for each of their two SLI's. They could end up junior to legacy AS pilots who they are currently senior to. I don't think that happens in SLI's.

PineappleXpres

How to quantify that….

And the pilots are at the mercy of a PWA, not Bezos

DenainaPilot

According to the union no pilot will end up junior to pilots they are currently senior to prior to the merger.

TTail

We dont have Amazon "hired guns". We have Hawaiian pilots who have bid the CVG 330 category. It's no different than any other Hawaiian category. It just happens to have different work rules and pay rates than the other 330 category.

All Bizniz

I don't think that can be emphasized enough.

Most people get that it's just a position (with unf lower pay rates), but it seems like there are those who believe (not maliciously, I don't think), that having bid over there, those HA pilots flying the Amzn contract have somehow been miraculously transformed into the "others".

SpaceRanger3000

Amazon flying being worth less is all opinions and speculation. You can go the other way for career expectations and quote Amazon offering "10 initial planes with options up to 55" and even talks of international cargo. That'd be worth far more for the pilots than the 330Pax and 787 orders combined.

rickair7777

Oh I agree completely that those pilots are not a separate category, not legally or philosophically. But their expectations should be considered as a part of the larger package.

Fortunately as has been pointed out it's a pretty small number of people at this point.

My other concern with AZ, not really related to SLI, is that it actually grows and then at some point in the future the union becomes beholden to a 1,000 pilot voting block that needs concessions to keep the AZ contract when (not if) Bezos eventually puts the squeeze on.

rickair7777

The problem with that is it's lowest bid subcontracting, with limited term contracts.

When the legacy retirements wind down other ACMI operators will be able to come in and severely under bid you with hungry, junior pilot labor.

A big economic downturn (not saying it's around the corner, but eventually it will happen) will put pilots on the street and potentially reduce demand for AZ cargo.

Many of us that have been doing this for a while learned have learned that you're better off in life when the logo on your paycheck matches the logo on your plane. Hell even Mesa was getting into the Prime business. That's not the sandbox I want to be playing in.

If Bezos wanted to pay a large pilot group legacy wages in perpetuity to fly his boxes, he'd just setup his own 121 certificate for Prime, and then he'd have a union and scope faster than you can "Buy with One Click". But that's obviously not what he wants. Bezos (and Musk) certainly get things done, but they're not fun to work for.

blackbox348

the 5% lower rates are compensated by the free flights to work, 14 guaranteed days off, and we don’t have ALV. The majority of the trips are 5 and 6 day pairings with lots of soft credit, all paid by rig and credit 31.5 and 38.5 hours respectively. The majority of pilots credit around 100-110 hours and have ~15 days off on the bid award. It is not uncommon to see people with 130+ credit for the month. Some choose to get around 70-80 hours and have 18–19 days off, some choose the 24 hour long call. The newly implemented ALV has the 330 passenger guys down to around 80 hours on the bid award. We are only limited by FAR 117 as far as max credit and pickups go.

None of the captains and half the FOs did not have this expectation of flying cargo on the mainland 2 years ago. We did not sell our soul to an ACMI. Last I checked we are primarily a passenger airline with a small cargo operation that represents less than 10% of the pilot group.

The Europe rumors have been circulating as the next 5 aircraft have crew rest, and who knows if we’ll be 10 aircraft, or 55. I think a reasonable number would be 20 and I wouldn’t be surprised whatsoever if the bid status went away and the lines were built in to pax lines.

Can you think of any other airlines with small cargo operations? Didn’t one just make a big announcement about “expanding” cargo operations and restructuring the management team?

ridinhigh

finally someone who knows what they are talking about