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Old 09-17-2024, 01:48 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Hawaiian 5O
Flailing is not failing, and we would not have failed. Sooner or later the shareholders would have corrected this with a swap at the BOD. We would have survived. We've been through WORSE.

So now, can we all get along and be a happy family? Only the #1 pilot should be happy with the SLI, and that ain't me.
case in point. that didn't take long.
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Old 09-17-2024, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawaiian 5O
Flailing is not failing, and we would not have failed. Sooner or later the shareholders would have corrected this with a swap at the BOD. We would have survived. We've been through WORSE.

So now, can we all get along and be a happy family? Only the #1 pilot should be happy with the SLI, and that ain't me.
HA Holdings were just biding their time then, waiting for a few hundred more million in losses before taking action?

We've been on a downward spiral for what 6 or 7 years?
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Old 09-17-2024, 02:10 PM
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I know a lot of people are going to be bashing on the Cattle Carrier but I feel his concerns are justified. Assuming 3400 pilots and 240 aircraft AS has roughly 14 pilots per airframe. At 1176 pilots and 64 aircraft HA has over 18 pilots per aircraft. With Boeing deliveries in doubt for the near term and compounding unresolved issues going forward, I am very concerned about the staffing ratios per aircraft.

Other than calling me stupid or miserable does anyone have any useful information in terms of deliveries or the fleet plan going forward?
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Old 09-17-2024, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodJet
I know a lot of people are going to be bashing on the Cattle Carrier but I feel his concerns are justified. Assuming 3400 pilots and 240 aircraft AS has roughly 14 pilots per airframe. At 1176 pilots and 64 aircraft HA has over 18 pilots per aircraft. With Boeing deliveries in doubt for the near term and compounding unresolved issues going forward, I am very concerned about the staffing ratios per aircraft.

Other than calling me stupid or miserable does anyone have any useful information in terms of deliveries or the fleet plan going forward?
The only staffing scenario you may not be accounting for is the RO postions on long haul flights. That usually produces a heavy list on the FO side. Not sure if it would be enough for 18 pilots per, but it does add I'd say 10% more on the widebodies FO list (ballpark). Also, the Amazon contract has 3 plans that don't appear on our list, but does increase our staffing. I believe that operation is overstaffed due to delays with Amazon receiving a/c.


Like politics today, many don't care that someone is right, only that their fragile feelings were hurt over a keyboard. Cattle is pretty spot on about his thoughts and concerns. We are getting a lifeline because our managements only plan was to sit and wait for Japan to evolve in 2027.
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Old 09-17-2024, 02:37 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by PurringRaccoon
Yesss.... we are coming for you and your career progression!! Thanks for saving us!! We feel very lucky! All your fears will materialize!!

Haha
That whole "We fly heavies and therefore deserve a bump in seniority over you lowly 737-with-bad-ergonomics-and-no-tray-table drivers. Seriously how could you have any career expectations with no tray tables?!" thing is pretty sticky and immediately tiring. (If that's one's actual thought process, I pity them for having miscalcuated their station in life in such a profound way. If not, I'm not frustrated that they have done little to correct the record). I guess you could probably tell I'm a straight DOH guy.

(Or stapled... that argument isn't completely without merit).


But otherwise, welcome to the family. Oh and, you're welcome.
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Old 09-17-2024, 02:38 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by GoodJet
I know a lot of people are going to be bashing on the Cattle Carrier but I feel his concerns are justified. Assuming 3400 pilots and 240 aircraft AS has roughly 14 pilots per airframe. At 1176 pilots and 64 aircraft HA has over 18 pilots per aircraft. With Boeing deliveries in doubt for the near term and compounding unresolved issues going forward, I am very concerned about the staffing ratios per aircraft.

Other than calling me stupid or miserable does anyone have any useful information in terms of deliveries or the fleet plan going forward?
Like Vaxer said, extra staffing for the RO position (I think it's closer to 20% than 10%). We also tend to staff a bit higher for reserve (during "good" staffing times) because the line holder generally can't just rejoin your trip as it never comes back through your domicile.
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Old 09-17-2024, 02:38 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by GoodJet
I know a lot of people are going to be bashing on the Cattle Carrier but I feel his concerns are justified. Assuming 3400 pilots and 240 aircraft AS has roughly 14 pilots per airframe. At 1176 pilots and 64 aircraft HA has over 18 pilots per aircraft. With Boeing deliveries in doubt for the near term and compounding unresolved issues going forward, I am very concerned about the staffing ratios per aircraft.

Other than calling me stupid or miserable does anyone have any useful information in terms of deliveries or the fleet plan going forward?
I'm fine doing an incentive line for the next year or so. Obviously, just to help out.
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Old 09-17-2024, 02:44 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by GoodJet
I know a lot of people are going to be bashing on the Cattle Carrier but I feel his concerns are justified. Assuming 3400 pilots and 240 aircraft AS has roughly 14 pilots per airframe. At 1176 pilots and 64 aircraft HA has over 18 pilots per aircraft. With Boeing deliveries in doubt for the near term and compounding unresolved issues going forward, I am very concerned about the staffing ratios per aircraft.

Other than calling me stupid or miserable does anyone have any useful information in terms of deliveries or the fleet plan going forward?
It was more his methodology than the substance of his argument that gave me pause. I didn't understand the immediate hostility, but I have to admit that he outlines some plausible scenarios.

Or was it she?
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Old 09-17-2024, 03:01 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by GoodJet
I know a lot of people are going to be bashing on the Cattle Carrier but I feel his concerns are justified. Assuming 3400 pilots and 240 aircraft AS has roughly 14 pilots per airframe. At 1176 pilots and 64 aircraft HA has over 18 pilots per aircraft. With Boeing deliveries in doubt for the near term and compounding unresolved issues going forward, I am very concerned about the staffing ratios per aircraft.

Other than calling me stupid or miserable does anyone have any useful information in terms of deliveries or the fleet plan going forward?
Widebody planes require more staffing because you have more pilots in the cockpit depending on the length of the flight. Also HA should have more pilots because it has more fleets, and needs more pilots to cover reserves from multiple pools of reserve pilots instead of just one pool because of a single equipment type being flown.
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Old 09-17-2024, 03:31 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by GoodJet
I know a lot of people are going to be bashing on the Cattle Carrier but I feel his concerns are justified. Assuming 3400 pilots and 240 aircraft AS has roughly 14 pilots per airframe. At 1176 pilots and 64 aircraft HA has over 18 pilots per aircraft. With Boeing deliveries in doubt for the near term and compounding unresolved issues going forward, I am very concerned about the staffing ratios per aircraft.

Other than calling me stupid or miserable does anyone have any useful information in terms of deliveries or the fleet plan going forward?
You mean the 2 of you agree? Shocking. To answer your question, augmented crews and multiple fleets as well as delayed deliveries are why they seem fatter in pilots than us.
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