AS/HA SLI Discussion
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,680
We all choose where we work man and that comes with pluses and minuses. There were guys that loved air Tran or stayed there so they could drive to work just like you do.
Bottom line is what about guys who left the failing company to go work for the buying one?? They will end up lower than those who stayed at the failing one? Makes no sense. Pilots who work for a company that is going under then purchased should be happy to still be employed and would have been at the bottom of any list that would have them next regardless.
Bottom line is what about guys who left the failing company to go work for the buying one?? They will end up lower than those who stayed at the failing one? Makes no sense. Pilots who work for a company that is going under then purchased should be happy to still be employed and would have been at the bottom of any list that would have them next regardless.
#163
Sure. But that's very, very hard to quantify objectively.
The reality is that absent an actual BK filing (and maybe not even then) the arbitrator isn't going to weight it much, and the realtive financial positions of the companies isn't going to wash out the traditional ALPA SLI weight on category. Hopefully fences will protect what's what.
Debate about what's "fair" is just peeing into the wind in this context.
The reality is that absent an actual BK filing (and maybe not even then) the arbitrator isn't going to weight it much, and the realtive financial positions of the companies isn't going to wash out the traditional ALPA SLI weight on category. Hopefully fences will protect what's what.
Debate about what's "fair" is just peeing into the wind in this context.
#164
#165
Rick. The more I talk to people and hear whatever body wants, it’s clear that most people do want to ride out on the horse they came in on, as you said. It’s the displacement scenarios, base or airframe, that is up for philosophical debate. Least harm to all. Not sure if arbitrator defined fencing and SLI itself accounts for those scenarios/contingencies.
If business is booming, then it's all good. However...
My personal bottom line is that if the HA operations are not sustainable at their current scope, it would not be fair to me to have a bunch of displaced WB people come in on top of me on the NB, just because they had "WB Career Expectations". If the WB op needs to change, it obviously wasn't sustainable or a very good "expectation" in the first place.
This is all hypothetical of course, but we have to argue our SLI positions before we know how it's all ging to turn out.
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 226
Outsider looking in... I don't think HA was in imminent danger of bankruptcy, and I think that argument is irrelevant as they were not in Ch 11 when the merger was announced.
I know ALK management said they intend to keep the WB flying... the question is for how long? Are you sure the new airline will be flying the WB's in 2034, or will it be an all-737MAX airline with all the WB's gone by the way of Virgin America's A320's? With that in mind, how do you integrate the lists? Is there an age gap between the two groups?
If I were a betting man, I'd bet on relative seniority merge with a 5 - 7 year fence on current WB's with caveat that any new delivered 787's post-merger is open to everyone based on seniority. This may kinda hose HA A330 pilots as those planes get retired.
Hope you guys get through this as quickly and as painlessly as possible.
I know ALK management said they intend to keep the WB flying... the question is for how long? Are you sure the new airline will be flying the WB's in 2034, or will it be an all-737MAX airline with all the WB's gone by the way of Virgin America's A320's? With that in mind, how do you integrate the lists? Is there an age gap between the two groups?
If I were a betting man, I'd bet on relative seniority merge with a 5 - 7 year fence on current WB's with caveat that any new delivered 787's post-merger is open to everyone based on seniority. This may kinda hose HA A330 pilots as those planes get retired.
Hope you guys get through this as quickly and as painlessly as possible.
#167
And the prospects for the AZ flying aren't good long-term, at least not from the perspective of anyone who's been around AS for very long.
#168
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,933
#169
Yikes. And I'm hearing rumors of 30-50 widebodies for Amazon. Isn't this bad if we don't even own the planes? What's to stop them at yr 8 and say no thanks, you're too expensive, ATI and ATSG can do it cheaper? Without owning planes and having the staff for it, how bad would a displacement be for 30-50 widebody planes as they close out CVG? Sorry, this has a feel of regional contract feed written all over it. I can't name a single major legacy airline that has a portion of its pilots flying exclusively farmed out airplanes as ACMI.
But the AZ WB pilots should really be stapled, because their career expectations are: ACMI
#170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,680
Frankly that's my worst fear. As I've said the HA WB pax pilots should have generous fences to protect them from senior SEA guppy lifers, who will scurry like rats to the 787's if allowed to.
But the AZ WB pilots should really be stapled, because their career expectations are: ACMI
But the AZ WB pilots should really be stapled, because their career expectations are: ACMI
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