GoodJet

Sorry but I don't put a lot of weight into a rumor that mgmt is in France buying 330s. I don't see growth by relying on BA.

Yakattack

That's one, I guess. Would you say your view is the majority?

MinRest

So by your metric, Boeing isn't ever going to produce an aircraft again?

CATIII

absolutely... as one myself, also a commuter, I'd 10X rather do what I do and fly one leg a day, and get 18+ days off a month, easy commute racked out in the crew rest, than bounce around on a 4 day trip in the guppy.. Only way I'd want the west coast base is if I can still hold the WB and avoid redeye's/reserve. which isn't likley any time before I retire. I think this SLI will not be as big a deal as many in this thread make it out.

Yakattack

Agreed.

This is where you lose me. Wouldn't a fence alone accomplish this? If nobody is able to bid the WB pilot's precious equipment, then they have no need for additional seniority, right? It's an honest question.

Yakattack

I haven't done a 4 day trip in years. It's usually one leg to the East Coast, sleep, one leg back.

Errr um... right, right! NB life is horrible! Stay far, far away!

CATIII

Where is your base? Are all AS trips like that, no matter what the base is?

flysnoopy76

Totally agree, probably the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard since I’ve worked here.

GoCats67

Guys are talking about what seat somebody is currently in as something that affects all of this. The only affect that has is that you can bet 100% that there will not be an entitilement to bump somebody that ends up junior to you out of a seat they are currently flying in. Other than that what seat you are actually in is completely irrelevant.

What is relevent is how many positions each airline has in each fleet/seat. This is affectionately called the stove pipe. Basically what it means is that they are going to treat your seniority position as far as category and status goes as where you would be if everybody bid to the highest position their seniority can hold. Put another way, if HA has 60 787 Captains (assuming 787 is the highest paying plane), then current seniority list numbers 1-60 will be treated as 787 Captains 1-60 for seniority integration purposes, even if only 30 of those 60 are actually on the 787. That same process will apply to each fleet seat (category) for the whole seniority list and then the same process will be done on the Alaska side (obviously much easier to do for Alaska)

That will give you the two seniority lists for Category and Status purposes.
You will also have the two seniority lists as they are right now for longevity purposes.

The Career expectations portion of the SLI debate usually comes down to how much relative weight each of the above lists are given and what if any fences are going to be put in place.

During the UAL/CAL SLI the arbitrator ulitmately decided on a 65% weight for the Status and Category portion and a 35% weight for the Longevity portion.

What that means is they took the UAL Status and Category list and mashed it together with the CAL Status and Category list by proportions. Widebody Captains were smashed together with their counterparts at the other airline, so the number 50 of 100 Widebody Captains at CAL was right next to the number 100 of 200 Widebody Captains at UAL (numbers completely made up for illustration purposes only). Next they did the same thing with middlebody Captains, Narrowbody Captains, Widebody FOs, ..... The end result was a combined Status and Category seniority list for all UAL and CAL pilots. That list was used for 65% weighting of your final position calculation.

They then took the seniority lists based on DOH and mashed them together to create one combined list based on years of service. That list was used for 35% weighting of your final position calculation.

So you had a number in list A multiplied by .65 and a number in list B multipled by .35. Those two numbers were added together and that become your ranking number for the final list. They then sorted the list by that new ranking number that each pilot had and that became the new final seniority list (ISL)

As far as fences go, we had a 5 year fence around the 787 for original CAL pilots and a 5 year fence around the 747 for original UAL pilots.

I would bet that your merged list process will follow this logic, so on the one list the total number of widebody captains at HA will be the very top of the status and category portion. I would also bet that the proportions on the longevity vs status and category will not be 35/65, but that same process will be used probobly with a much higher weighting of longevity.

word302

Because the fences won't last forever. What about when we add widebodies to a a base other than HNL? What if the HNL flying decreases and WBs increase in other bases? What if NB flying decreases due to the increase in WB flying? I'm sure there will be temporary fences as well as a seniority bump. That's how it works.