AS/HA SLI Discussion
09-18-2024, 06:28 PM
#91
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
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09-18-2024, 06:55 PM
#92
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 162
Factors to be considered in constructing a fair and equitable integrated seniority list, in no particular order and with no particular weight, shall include but not be limited to the following:- Career expectations.- Longevity. - Status and category.
09-18-2024, 10:14 PM
#93
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Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 226
Please don’t fight. We need unity. And then when one side proposes 15% longevity and 85% relative, and the other side proposes 70% longevity and 30% relative, you’re still supposed to have unity and act lovey dovey.
Can’t wait to see the SLI proposals from both sides, while in the same breath telling us to maintain unity.
Can’t wait to see the SLI proposals from both sides, while in the same breath telling us to maintain unity.
09-18-2024, 11:17 PM
#94
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Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 1,212
I think the gist of what some AS people (including me to some degree) are concerned about is...
HA pilots granted better seniority to account for WB expectations, then...
a) Mainland resident HA pilots who are tired of the commute use their new seniority to come in on top of AS pilots in west coast bases. This is hypothetical of course but even 100-200 people would have a big impact. LAX is probably most concerning since that already got a big hit from VX integration.
.
HA pilots granted better seniority to account for WB expectations, then...
a) Mainland resident HA pilots who are tired of the commute use their new seniority to come in on top of AS pilots in west coast bases. This is hypothetical of course but even 100-200 people would have a big impact. LAX is probably most concerning since that already got a big hit from VX integration.
.
09-18-2024, 11:32 PM
#95
New Hire
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 7
Yes. In this example, Spirit would be buying us, and I wouldn't dream of disrespecting their pilot group by claiming that DOH was unfair and that some A320 pilot from the purchasing airline who was actually hired before me should be junior to me because of my "higher" equipment type. I'm sure they are just as professional as I am. Show some respect.
09-18-2024, 11:43 PM
#96
New Hire
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 7
I think the gist of what some AS people (including me to some degree) are concerned about is...
HA pilots granted better seniority to account for WB expectations, then...
a) Mainland resident HA pilots who are tired of the commute use their new seniority to come in on top of AS pilots in west coast bases. This is hypothetical of course but even 100-200 people would have a big impact. LAX is probably most concerning since that already got a big hit from VX integration.
AND/OR
b) Route/fleet consolidation, boeing failure to deliver, etc driven musical chairs.
For those reasons I tend to prefer a DOH-ish solution with fences. In this case we might want to deviate from the norm and fence all bases or fleets. To the extent that OG pilots get first crack at their original fleets and then remaining vacancies go to whoever.
Of course HA pilots can be legit concerned about AS pilots coming for their WB's, but the usual ALPA process is known to address that.
HA pilots granted better seniority to account for WB expectations, then...
a) Mainland resident HA pilots who are tired of the commute use their new seniority to come in on top of AS pilots in west coast bases. This is hypothetical of course but even 100-200 people would have a big impact. LAX is probably most concerning since that already got a big hit from VX integration.
AND/OR
b) Route/fleet consolidation, boeing failure to deliver, etc driven musical chairs.
For those reasons I tend to prefer a DOH-ish solution with fences. In this case we might want to deviate from the norm and fence all bases or fleets. To the extent that OG pilots get first crack at their original fleets and then remaining vacancies go to whoever.
Of course HA pilots can be legit concerned about AS pilots coming for their WB's, but the usual ALPA process is known to address that.
Every HA pilot will be impacted by the reduced WB ratio. There is no trade off for a HA pilot giving up a WB seat to a AS pilot. Every WB pilot has the seniority to be a NB pilot already and chose not to. If there is nothing to make up for that then seniority boosts and/or career long fences are a solution.
09-19-2024, 12:46 AM
#97
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Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 719
An AS pilot concern for a HA pilot with a seniority boost moving into a mainland base is legit but very small in impacted number of pilots. Sure a few dozen might move but for every one that does a HNL slot opens up for an AS pilot that desires it (I know several who live in HI). Fair trade.
Every HA pilot will be impacted by the reduced WB ratio. There is no trade off for a HA pilot giving up a WB seat to a AS pilot. Every WB pilot has the seniority to be a NB pilot already and chose not to. If there is nothing to make up for that then seniority boosts and/or career long fences are a solution.
Every HA pilot will be impacted by the reduced WB ratio. There is no trade off for a HA pilot giving up a WB seat to a AS pilot. Every WB pilot has the seniority to be a NB pilot already and chose not to. If there is nothing to make up for that then seniority boosts and/or career long fences are a solution.
There is only one way to make aggrieved pilots feel better after a contentious SLI. Money.
If there is any sign of musical chairs, displacements, or other optimizations, this merger will implode and we can expect a period of disarray as morale plummets. A robust plan, deliveries, and growth is the only way that everyone keeps their head above water.
09-19-2024, 05:35 AM
#99
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,657
There is only one grease for a successful merger. Growth.
There is only one way to make aggrieved pilots feel better after a contentious SLI. Money.
If there is any sign of musical chairs, displacements, or other optimizations, this merger will implode and we can expect a period of disarray as morale plummets. A robust plan, deliveries, and growth is the only way that everyone keeps their head above water.
There is only one way to make aggrieved pilots feel better after a contentious SLI. Money.
If there is any sign of musical chairs, displacements, or other optimizations, this merger will implode and we can expect a period of disarray as morale plummets. A robust plan, deliveries, and growth is the only way that everyone keeps their head above water.
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