787 routes
07-13-2024, 08:54 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,586
The biggest hangup with SFO is pilot retention, that was an ongoing trainwreck with company-wide ramifications up until Feb. AS was taking regional pilots, giving them a NB type or two with ETOPS and then assigning them to the junior base, effectively serving them up on a silver platter to UAL.
Nobody in their right mind would stay, unless they live in ANC and absolutely want to eventually be based at home. I've met several ex-AS pilots commuting to SFO from PDX, so even PDX won't keep them.
But I guess having a WB option in SFO might mitigate the bleeding just a bit. But it's still going to be hard to compete with UAL, which will be hiring for at least anothe decade.
Again it's not just about SFO, almost all new-hires go to SFO and the majority then resign within a year.
Nobody in their right mind would stay, unless they live in ANC and absolutely want to eventually be based at home. I've met several ex-AS pilots commuting to SFO from PDX, so even PDX won't keep them.
But I guess having a WB option in SFO might mitigate the bleeding just a bit. But it's still going to be hard to compete with UAL, which will be hiring for at least anothe decade.
Again it's not just about SFO, almost all new-hires go to SFO and the majority then resign within a year.
07-13-2024, 09:25 AM
#42
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: The Jet
Posts: 1,067
The biggest hangup with SFO is pilot retention, that was an ongoing trainwreck with company-wide ramifications up until Feb. AS was taking regional pilots, giving them a NB type or two with ETOPS and then assigning them to the junior base, effectively serving them up on a silver platter to UAL.
Nobody in their right mind would stay, unless they live in ANC and absolutely want to eventually be based at home. I've met several ex-AS pilots commuting to SFO from PDX, so even PDX won't keep them.
But I guess having a WB option in SFO might mitigate the bleeding just a bit. But it's still going to be hard to compete with UAL, which will be hiring for at least anothe decade.
Again it's not just about SFO, almost all new-hires go to SFO and the majority then resign within a year.
Nobody in their right mind would stay, unless they live in ANC and absolutely want to eventually be based at home. I've met several ex-AS pilots commuting to SFO from PDX, so even PDX won't keep them.
But I guess having a WB option in SFO might mitigate the bleeding just a bit. But it's still going to be hard to compete with UAL, which will be hiring for at least anothe decade.
Again it's not just about SFO, almost all new-hires go to SFO and the majority then resign within a year.
This just is what it is.
OAK and BWI are junior for SWA. SFO and EWR are junior for UAL. SFO is junior for AS. I can go on and on but every airline has trouble staffing these bases. Pilots getting based in SFO with AS then suddenly leaving for UAL isn't because they were SFO based. They were going to leave no matter what. Alaska needs to get ahead of hiring and be in front of the CJO pipeline. I know several pilots who wanted to go to AS that were SFO based and AS never called. UAL did so off they went. Those who wanted to go to UAL but AS hired them, were going to leave no matter what. There is also an entitlement with younger pilots that if they aren't getting hired and automatically getting upgraded, holding a line and/or flying a widebody, they leave because the "grass is greener". We have moved on from SJS to shiny company syndrome, yet none of these young pilots remember how these big companies operate when crap hits the fan.
Junior bases can be junior bases for a whole host of reasons and every airline has trouble keeping them properly staffed. Alaska is not unique to that.
07-13-2024, 09:27 AM
#43
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: The Jet
Posts: 1,067
07-13-2024, 09:37 AM
#44
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Posts: 18
This just is what it is.
OAK and BWI are junior for SWA. SFO and EWR are junior for UAL. SFO is junior for AS. I can go on and on but every airline has trouble staffing these bases. Pilots getting based in SFO with AS then suddenly leaving for UAL isn't because they were SFO based. They were going to leave no matter what. Alaska needs to get ahead of hiring and be in front of the CJO pipeline. I know several pilots who wanted to go to AS that were SFO based and AS never called. UAL did so off they went. Those who wanted to go to UAL but AS hired them, were going to leave no matter what. There is also an entitlement with younger pilots that if they aren't getting hired and automatically getting upgraded, holding a line and/or flying a widebody, they leave because the "grass is greener". We have moved on from SJS to shiny company syndrome, yet none of these young pilots remember how these big companies operate when crap hits the fan.
Junior bases can be junior bases for a whole host of reasons and every airline has trouble keeping them properly staffed. Alaska is not unique to that.
OAK and BWI are junior for SWA. SFO and EWR are junior for UAL. SFO is junior for AS. I can go on and on but every airline has trouble staffing these bases. Pilots getting based in SFO with AS then suddenly leaving for UAL isn't because they were SFO based. They were going to leave no matter what. Alaska needs to get ahead of hiring and be in front of the CJO pipeline. I know several pilots who wanted to go to AS that were SFO based and AS never called. UAL did so off they went. Those who wanted to go to UAL but AS hired them, were going to leave no matter what. There is also an entitlement with younger pilots that if they aren't getting hired and automatically getting upgraded, holding a line and/or flying a widebody, they leave because the "grass is greener". We have moved on from SJS to shiny company syndrome, yet none of these young pilots remember how these big companies operate when crap hits the fan.
Junior bases can be junior bases for a whole host of reasons and every airline has trouble keeping them properly staffed. Alaska is not unique to that.
07-13-2024, 10:00 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 1,155
The biggest hangup with SFO is pilot retention, that was an ongoing trainwreck with company-wide ramifications up until Feb. AS was taking regional pilots, giving them a NB type or two with ETOPS and then assigning them to the junior base, effectively serving them up on a silver platter to UAL.
Nobody in their right mind would stay, unless they live in ANC and absolutely want to eventually be based at home. I've met several ex-AS pilots commuting to SFO from PDX, so even PDX won't keep them.
But I guess having a WB option in SFO might mitigate the bleeding just a bit. But it's still going to be hard to compete with UAL, which will be hiring for at least anothe decade.
Again it's not just about SFO, almost all new-hires go to SFO and the majority then resign within a year.
Nobody in their right mind would stay, unless they live in ANC and absolutely want to eventually be based at home. I've met several ex-AS pilots commuting to SFO from PDX, so even PDX won't keep them.
But I guess having a WB option in SFO might mitigate the bleeding just a bit. But it's still going to be hard to compete with UAL, which will be hiring for at least anothe decade.
Again it's not just about SFO, almost all new-hires go to SFO and the majority then resign within a year.
07-13-2024, 10:13 AM
#46
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 66
I think this conversation assumes we are not about to acquire 1100 pilots that are about to have their fleet and route structures flipped on its head. What percentage did we decide commute from the manland? No one seems to know for sure but its high. Staffing is not going to be a problem for a long time. Hiring is not going to be a problem for a long time except for replacing people off the bottom to cover attrition as they realize upgrade times are way longer, seniority progression is way slower, base and fleet options are lower than our legacy peers.
Problems:
- Displacement bids from retiring fleets
- Shrinking HNL base
- "Unknown" future of Amazon flying (I bet all those folks live on the mainland)
Unless BM has a secret plan that opens more mainland bases or something this place is going to be a stagnated disaster for pilots for a decade.
Problems:
- Displacement bids from retiring fleets
- Shrinking HNL base
- "Unknown" future of Amazon flying (I bet all those folks live on the mainland)
Unless BM has a secret plan that opens more mainland bases or something this place is going to be a stagnated disaster for pilots for a decade.
07-13-2024, 10:35 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,586
I think this conversation assumes we are not about to acquire 1100 pilots that are about to have their fleet and route structures flipped on its head. What percentage did we decide commute from the manland? No one seems to know for sure but its high. Staffing is not going to be a problem for a long time. Hiring is not going to be a problem for a long time except for replacing people off the bottom to cover attrition as they realize upgrade times are way longer, seniority progression is way slower, base and fleet options are lower than our legacy peers.
Problems:
- Displacement bids from retiring fleets
- Shrinking HNL base
- "Unknown" future of Amazon flying (I bet all those folks live on the mainland)
Unless BM has a secret plan that opens more mainland bases or something this place is going to be a stagnated disaster for pilots for a decade.
Problems:
- Displacement bids from retiring fleets
- Shrinking HNL base
- "Unknown" future of Amazon flying (I bet all those folks live on the mainland)
Unless BM has a secret plan that opens more mainland bases or something this place is going to be a stagnated disaster for pilots for a decade.
07-13-2024, 10:54 AM
#48
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 66
Lol, your takes are definitely, well takes. I don't think SIL is going to be all unicorns and rainbows but this merger will be good for both companies and (gasp) pilot groups long term. Our lack of fleet and base diversity is what caused attrition to go crazy. This merger fixes half of that problem. It remains to be seen if management has the intestinal fortitude to fix the other half.
07-13-2024, 11:16 AM
#50
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 66
No chance. took 7 years to retire the airbuses. 3 years to close the JFK base. When the merger closed in 2016 we had 219 mainline tails. At the close of '23 we had 232. 13 tails of growth in 7 years. Only now in '24 are we starting to see organic growth in the # of tails with the VA merger firmly behind us and all those pilots digested into the system. This merger is infinitely more complicated than the VA merger and to my eyes HA seems significantly overstaffed.
Your stuck for the forseeable future. For those that are happy with their place on the seniority list thats fine. For those that are stuck on reserve, just short of upgrade, stuck flying trips they hate etc. Its a disaster. For a new hire looking at options, wouldn't touch this place with a 10' pole. AS probably won't need many anyway.
Your stuck for the forseeable future. For those that are happy with their place on the seniority list thats fine. For those that are stuck on reserve, just short of upgrade, stuck flying trips they hate etc. Its a disaster. For a new hire looking at options, wouldn't touch this place with a 10' pole. AS probably won't need many anyway.
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