Our first 787
02-20-2024, 11:27 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 687
Just to clarify: Your argument is that reorganization under Chapter 11 means that an airline converts their widebody fleet to narrowbody? That's not what happened when United, Delta, American, HA filed for Ch 11 in the 2000s.
HA in Ch 11 means renegotiated pay, benefits, and leases. Not the end of long-haul flying.
And to the earlier point about A330 pilots being protected for 787 flying during the fence, that's exactly what was provided in the DL/NW arbitration.
HA in Ch 11 means renegotiated pay, benefits, and leases. Not the end of long-haul flying.
And to the earlier point about A330 pilots being protected for 787 flying during the fence, that's exactly what was provided in the DL/NW arbitration.
How I see it is that simply put, bankruptcy would mean downsizing to get rid of unprofitable flying, whether it be on the narrow body side, or the wide-body side.
If that's true, I do think you're whistling past the grave to cherry pick pay, benefits and leases as the culprits, and not speaking to the bigger reason why HA is heading for financial trouble (if not already there).
Based on what I've read on the HA forum, it sounds like while there are some profitable wide-body routes, there are quite a few that are bleeding cash.
I don't think HA on its own would have been able to keep those widebodies, because well, you're in bankruptcy.
A company with deeper pockets however, having acquired you, hopefully would be able to turn things around.
Last edited by All Bizniz; 02-20-2024 at 11:57 AM.
02-20-2024, 12:59 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 277
I'm totally cool with 20 year WB fences, as long as west coast bases have a 20 year fence too.
Mainland HA people who chose to commute to the islands for life shouldn't be allowed to airdrop in on top of those who chose not to... specifically me. I very seriously considered HA, with the help of friends, but it was the commute that turned me off ultimately, ended up waiting several more years for a palatable west cost job offer.
That's just my opinion. There will be a sticking point when they presumably start basing 787's in SEA and buying more... at what point are those still HA planes vs. when are they actually AS airplanes? Some folks will say any deliveries after the deal closes belong to AS. Personally I'd give HA pilots the initial order and maybe half the options? If the WB's stay in HI, then they can have all of them for the duration of the fences.
And then you have the issue of the 330's being phased out... "when" that happens, do those pilots have an entitlement to 787's based in SEA? I put "when" in quotes because when the merger was announced in Dec I assumed all airbii would be gone, even if it took them a decade. But now with the latest max debacle the SEA headshed might actually be open to the opportunity afforded by the merger to gracefully split fleets, especially on the WB side. Time will tell.
Not trying to start a food fight or actually solve anything, just generating some thought on the issues which will have to be addressed.
Mainland HA people who chose to commute to the islands for life shouldn't be allowed to airdrop in on top of those who chose not to... specifically me. I very seriously considered HA, with the help of friends, but it was the commute that turned me off ultimately, ended up waiting several more years for a palatable west cost job offer.
That's just my opinion. There will be a sticking point when they presumably start basing 787's in SEA and buying more... at what point are those still HA planes vs. when are they actually AS airplanes? Some folks will say any deliveries after the deal closes belong to AS. Personally I'd give HA pilots the initial order and maybe half the options? If the WB's stay in HI, then they can have all of them for the duration of the fences.
And then you have the issue of the 330's being phased out... "when" that happens, do those pilots have an entitlement to 787's based in SEA? I put "when" in quotes because when the merger was announced in Dec I assumed all airbii would be gone, even if it took them a decade. But now with the latest max debacle the SEA headshed might actually be open to the opportunity afforded by the merger to gracefully split fleets, especially on the WB side. Time will tell.
Not trying to start a food fight or actually solve anything, just generating some thought on the issues which will have to be addressed.
There are bound to be a ton of opinions on the widebodys and it will be interesting to see how it shakes out. As well as your west coast/Alaska bases.
I agree that anyone at HA had a career expectancy of a HNL base for the past decade since the last west coast base closure. There had been a rumor a little while back of a Bay Area or LA/so cal base but obviously nothing happened. But it seems fair that we stay here and you stay there for now. What happens with the unknown future planning of equipment is anyone's guess.
I don't fear staying HA without a merger as the investments of the past couple years are about to start creating revenue finally. And eventually the number cruncher CEO would crunch some damn numbers and get us profitable. There has been quite a turnaround in the Flight dept the last 5+ years as for about 90 years the place was run like an intra island airline and someone got the idea to modernize the entire thing which takes managers and money. But it seems like we are there and could trim there now easily and I imagine most other departments are similar.
Team work will make the dream work,
Cheers
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
