SpaceRanger3000

Fence only 3-5 years? "Mergers such as NWA/REP resulted in 20 year fences as the REP pilots had no career expectations to ever fly a widebody aircraft." I'd expect the same goes for many who chose Hawaiian specifically to fly widebodies for their career and those who were happy to work for an airline that had zero widebody aircraft.

With the 330s being replaced and 787s delivered mostly post merger there is a lot to be lost in terms of widebody positions for Hawaiian pilots. I don't know how that career expectation can be maintained.

PineappleXpres

Me neither, but if you include Amazon and the 787 orders in sim that’s fifty some wide bodies. Equaling a greater number than our seniority list when it’s all said and done. Our largest amount of vacancies to new hires is in widebodies. Neo and 717 pilots are somewhat happy with that style of flying plus they upgrade quicker.

Hawaii808

false. There are 330 FO vacancies because a large majority of NEO and 717 FOs are new hire seat locked. Most would bid 330 or 787 if they could.

EK GANN

The Sunday Star Advertiser had an editorial piece that pretty much said it all....All four County Mayors made a very strong case for the benefits to
the State othat the merger creates....they were strongly in favor of it...for several reasons but one of the strongest was the keeping the Hawaiian brand and the importance
of that to Hawaii....it's a big deal and one of the biggest assets Alaska is getting out of it, and they know it. As far as SWA, they have half the inter island flights of Hawaii and yet they have a 40% lower load factor than HA and the average yield they get from a ticket is 30% lower than HA...that came from Peter Ingram on a Hawaii News Now interview with Howard Dicus. This merger is unique and the DOJ would have to be blind as a bat not to see the benefits that it creates for Hawaii and the overall marketplace...good for Hawaii, good for consumers and no downside.

PineappleXpres

Count the vacancies. New hire locks are a mixed bag as some FO’s on either the neo and 717 are NOT bidding 330 with the expectation of a 321 or 717 upgrade when they near the 2 year market. The merger may skew things slightly.

EK GANN

Auwe...this is what happens when you post in a hurry. Typos and I meant this for the "Merger on Track (rumor)" thread over on Hawaiian!....anyway, the article also mentioned how Alaska is far and away the best merger partner for Hawaiian due to both airlines common history of providing essential service to their respective States.....bottom line is the political stakeholders are lining up in favor of it.

rickair7777

I'm totally cool with 20 year WB fences, as long as west coast bases have a 20 year fence too.

Mainland HA people who chose to commute to the islands for life shouldn't be allowed to airdrop in on top of those who chose not to... specifically me. I very seriously considered HA, with the help of friends, but it was the commute that turned me off ultimately, ended up waiting several more years for a palatable west cost job offer.

That's just my opinion. There will be a sticking point when they presumably start basing 787's in SEA and buying more... at what point are those still HA planes vs. when are they actually AS airplanes? Some folks will say any deliveries after the deal closes belong to AS. Personally I'd give HA pilots the initial order and maybe half the options? If the WB's stay in HI, then they can have all of them for the duration of the fences.

And then you have the issue of the 330's being phased out... "when" that happens, do those pilots have an entitlement to 787's based in SEA? I put "when" in quotes because when the merger was announced in Dec I assumed all airbii would be gone, even if it took them a decade. But now with the latest max debacle the SEA headshed might actually be open to the opportunity afforded by the merger to gracefully split fleets, especially on the WB side. Time will tell.

Not trying to start a food fight or actually solve anything, just generating some thought on the issues which will have to be addressed.

All Bizniz

It could be argued that neither would that career expectation be maintained with an airline that is the odds on favorite for having to go through bankruptcy.

Alaska Airlines is no Republic Airlines in any way, shape or form.

fuzzball

Just to clarify: Your argument is that reorganization under Chapter 11 means that an airline converts their widebody fleet to narrowbody? That's not what happened when United, Delta, American, HA filed for Ch 11 in the 2000s.

HA in Ch 11 means renegotiated pay, benefits, and leases. Not the end of long-haul flying.

And to the earlier point about A330 pilots being protected for 787 flying during the fence, that's exactly what was provided in the DL/NW arbitration.

ReluctantEskimo

If Alaska is smart, they'll keep the 330s until the fences come down. And then replace them with a greater than 1:1 ratio of 787s.

That way no one loses their status.

Growth is the grease that makes mergers work smoothly.