Alaska buying Hawaiian airlines.
04-26-2024, 10:54 AM
#711
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 37
Divestiture? So now not only is Alaska buying an overstaffed unprofitable flailing operation with outdated assets we have to give up our profitable routes and gates to get it? Wow, merger math really is backwards. On top of that you are going to get a bunch of pilots from an unprofitable operation inserted next to you on OUR seniority list, a bunch stateside pilots that COMMITTED to a career of commuting half way across the Pacific are now going to get stuck right in there next to YOU in our west coast bases, actually probably in front of you because….you know….widebody career expectations. I CANNOT BELIEVE any Alaska pilot is excited about this. It might be good for BM and ST, it might be good for passengers with the AS “gold standard” credit card. It is probably good for HA pilots due to the financial condition of their airline. It IS NOT good for the Alaska pilot group. This seems obviously undebatable.
A secret I learned while flying in the military……the key to your happiness isn’t hardware. A 787 (if you ever touch one) will get old boring and uninteresting real fast, just like flying anything else. The airplane I flew in the military is “sexier” flying than anything a civilian trained pilot will ever touch……after a few years….old boring and a job just like every other airplane.
The only thing unique HA has to offer Alaska is hardware and unprofitable seasonal pacific routes that likely won’t exist once ST gets a look at their financial reality. HA lost $140m in Q1.
HA has 65 airplanes, 4 types, 1100 pilots (WTF?), and a little route structure geared almost entirely around vacation travel (i.e. economically sensitive AF). They have a bottom of the barrel cargo contract with Amazon that has them playing in the same whipsaw sandbox as Mesa. 330’s that don’t go far enough, 717s with less than 5 years left on them, 321s with bum engines that Alaska likely doesn’t want, and are STILL HIRING PILOTS TODAY to cover contract cargo flying ON a B SCALE! Not hard to imagine our union forced to cough up concessions from our hard earned contract in an effort to keep those fine folks newly hired at HA from getting furloughed.
I would not consider myself ideologically aligned with the current administration….but GO LINA KHAN GO!!!!! Please spare us from ourselves. I was going to vote for RFK as a protest vote against the two bumbling turd wagons on the primary tickets but I might be changing my mind.
IF (I said IF) we are headed towards an economic slowdown this is the absolute last thing you want your employer to be embroiled in with faltering demand. Forced to unload an entire airline of unprofitable outdated assets and scrambling to figure out what to do with 1100 extra pilots. Buh Bye leverage good luck in the JCBA.
We should be getting lean, mean, profitable, and focused on smart deliberate organic growth where it makes sense and makes money. I know its not sexy to fly stateside in a 737 but who cares? If your pilot ego is still driving your life priorities at this point in your career you need to grow up.
I understand this is all out of our control. But I hope that as the costs/sacrifices required to push this disaster across the finish line inevitably mount that pilots would be hitting up their Reps daily. The union should be seriously questioning the wisdom of BMs ego project and making it known to management that the Alaska pilots are not on board. The Alaska pilot group has the most to lose in this transaction.
A secret I learned while flying in the military……the key to your happiness isn’t hardware. A 787 (if you ever touch one) will get old boring and uninteresting real fast, just like flying anything else. The airplane I flew in the military is “sexier” flying than anything a civilian trained pilot will ever touch……after a few years….old boring and a job just like every other airplane.
The only thing unique HA has to offer Alaska is hardware and unprofitable seasonal pacific routes that likely won’t exist once ST gets a look at their financial reality. HA lost $140m in Q1.
HA has 65 airplanes, 4 types, 1100 pilots (WTF?), and a little route structure geared almost entirely around vacation travel (i.e. economically sensitive AF). They have a bottom of the barrel cargo contract with Amazon that has them playing in the same whipsaw sandbox as Mesa. 330’s that don’t go far enough, 717s with less than 5 years left on them, 321s with bum engines that Alaska likely doesn’t want, and are STILL HIRING PILOTS TODAY to cover contract cargo flying ON a B SCALE! Not hard to imagine our union forced to cough up concessions from our hard earned contract in an effort to keep those fine folks newly hired at HA from getting furloughed.
I would not consider myself ideologically aligned with the current administration….but GO LINA KHAN GO!!!!! Please spare us from ourselves. I was going to vote for RFK as a protest vote against the two bumbling turd wagons on the primary tickets but I might be changing my mind.
IF (I said IF) we are headed towards an economic slowdown this is the absolute last thing you want your employer to be embroiled in with faltering demand. Forced to unload an entire airline of unprofitable outdated assets and scrambling to figure out what to do with 1100 extra pilots. Buh Bye leverage good luck in the JCBA.
We should be getting lean, mean, profitable, and focused on smart deliberate organic growth where it makes sense and makes money. I know its not sexy to fly stateside in a 737 but who cares? If your pilot ego is still driving your life priorities at this point in your career you need to grow up.
I understand this is all out of our control. But I hope that as the costs/sacrifices required to push this disaster across the finish line inevitably mount that pilots would be hitting up their Reps daily. The union should be seriously questioning the wisdom of BMs ego project and making it known to management that the Alaska pilots are not on board. The Alaska pilot group has the most to lose in this transaction.
04-26-2024, 11:32 AM
#712
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,238
Divestiture? So now not only is Alaska buying an overstaffed unprofitable flailing operation with outdated assets we have to give up our profitable routes and gates to get it? Wow, merger math really is backwards. On top of that you are going to get a bunch of pilots from an unprofitable operation inserted next to you on OUR seniority list, a bunch stateside pilots that COMMITTED to a career of commuting half way across the Pacific are now going to get stuck right in there next to YOU in our west coast bases, actually probably in front of you because….you know….widebody career expectations. I CANNOT BELIEVE any Alaska pilot is excited about this. It might be good for BM and ST, it might be good for passengers with the AS “gold standard” credit card. It is probably good for HA pilots due to the financial condition of their airline. It IS NOT good for the Alaska pilot group. This seems obviously undebatable.
A secret I learned while flying in the military……the key to your happiness isn’t hardware. A 787 (if you ever touch one) will get old boring and uninteresting real fast, just like flying anything else. The airplane I flew in the military is “sexier” flying than anything a civilian trained pilot will ever touch……after a few years….old boring and a job just like every other airplane.
The only thing unique HA has to offer Alaska is hardware and unprofitable seasonal pacific routes that likely won’t exist once ST gets a look at their financial reality. HA lost $140m in Q1.
HA has 65 airplanes, 4 types, 1100 pilots (WTF?), and a little route structure geared almost entirely around vacation travel (i.e. economically sensitive AF). They have a bottom of the barrel cargo contract with Amazon that has them playing in the same whipsaw sandbox as Mesa. 330’s that don’t go far enough, 717s with less than 5 years left on them, 321s with bum engines that Alaska likely doesn’t want, and are STILL HIRING PILOTS TODAY to cover contract cargo flying ON a B SCALE! Not hard to imagine our union forced to cough up concessions from our hard earned contract in an effort to keep those fine folks newly hired at HA from getting furloughed.
I would not consider myself ideologically aligned with the current administration….but GO LINA KHAN GO!!!!! Please spare us from ourselves. I was going to vote for RFK as a protest vote against the two bumbling turd wagons on the primary tickets but I might be changing my mind.
IF (I said IF) we are headed towards an economic slowdown this is the absolute last thing you want your employer to be embroiled in with faltering demand. Forced to unload an entire airline of unprofitable outdated assets and scrambling to figure out what to do with 1100 extra pilots. Buh Bye leverage good luck in the JCBA.
We should be getting lean, mean, profitable, and focused on smart deliberate organic growth where it makes sense and makes money. I know its not sexy to fly stateside in a 737 but who cares? If your pilot ego is still driving your life priorities at this point in your career you need to grow up.
I understand this is all out of our control. But I hope that as the costs/sacrifices required to push this disaster across the finish line inevitably mount that pilots would be hitting up their Reps daily. The union should be seriously questioning the wisdom of BMs ego project and making it known to management that the Alaska pilots are not on board. The Alaska pilot group has the most to lose in this transaction.
A secret I learned while flying in the military……the key to your happiness isn’t hardware. A 787 (if you ever touch one) will get old boring and uninteresting real fast, just like flying anything else. The airplane I flew in the military is “sexier” flying than anything a civilian trained pilot will ever touch……after a few years….old boring and a job just like every other airplane.
The only thing unique HA has to offer Alaska is hardware and unprofitable seasonal pacific routes that likely won’t exist once ST gets a look at their financial reality. HA lost $140m in Q1.
HA has 65 airplanes, 4 types, 1100 pilots (WTF?), and a little route structure geared almost entirely around vacation travel (i.e. economically sensitive AF). They have a bottom of the barrel cargo contract with Amazon that has them playing in the same whipsaw sandbox as Mesa. 330’s that don’t go far enough, 717s with less than 5 years left on them, 321s with bum engines that Alaska likely doesn’t want, and are STILL HIRING PILOTS TODAY to cover contract cargo flying ON a B SCALE! Not hard to imagine our union forced to cough up concessions from our hard earned contract in an effort to keep those fine folks newly hired at HA from getting furloughed.
I would not consider myself ideologically aligned with the current administration….but GO LINA KHAN GO!!!!! Please spare us from ourselves. I was going to vote for RFK as a protest vote against the two bumbling turd wagons on the primary tickets but I might be changing my mind.
IF (I said IF) we are headed towards an economic slowdown this is the absolute last thing you want your employer to be embroiled in with faltering demand. Forced to unload an entire airline of unprofitable outdated assets and scrambling to figure out what to do with 1100 extra pilots. Buh Bye leverage good luck in the JCBA.
We should be getting lean, mean, profitable, and focused on smart deliberate organic growth where it makes sense and makes money. I know its not sexy to fly stateside in a 737 but who cares? If your pilot ego is still driving your life priorities at this point in your career you need to grow up.
I understand this is all out of our control. But I hope that as the costs/sacrifices required to push this disaster across the finish line inevitably mount that pilots would be hitting up their Reps daily. The union should be seriously questioning the wisdom of BMs ego project and making it known to management that the Alaska pilots are not on board. The Alaska pilot group has the most to lose in this transaction.
04-26-2024, 01:19 PM
#713
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Position: 000
Posts: 22
This⬆️⬆️⬆️.
Kind of what I have been quietly thinking, but afraid to say out loud for fear of upsetting the GrOwTh crowd. This merger will f&@k mid seniority AS for years to come, HA pilots are praying the merger is approved. It is a win, win only for the HA pilots and maybe the top 150 AS pilots.
Kind of what I have been quietly thinking, but afraid to say out loud for fear of upsetting the GrOwTh crowd. This merger will f&@k mid seniority AS for years to come, HA pilots are praying the merger is approved. It is a win, win only for the HA pilots and maybe the top 150 AS pilots.
Edit: Most don't want to lose the unique culture (give or take.. some couldn't care I guess) at HAL... Also, nobody wants to lose their job if the company keeps bleeding money. Catch 22
I'm not praying the merger goes through but logically I can't see the financial situation improving yet
04-26-2024, 09:03 PM
#714
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 51
Divestiture? So now not only is Alaska buying an overstaffed unprofitable flailing operation with outdated assets we have to give up our profitable routes and gates to get it? Wow, merger math really is backwards. On top of that you are going to get a bunch of pilots from an unprofitable operation inserted next to you on OUR seniority list, a bunch stateside pilots that COMMITTED to a career of commuting half way across the Pacific are now going to get stuck right in there next to YOU in our west coast bases, actually probably in front of you because….you know….widebody career expectations. I CANNOT BELIEVE any Alaska pilot is excited about this. It might be good for BM and ST, it might be good for passengers with the AS “gold standard” credit card. It is probably good for HA pilots due to the financial condition of their airline. It IS NOT good for the Alaska pilot group. This seems obviously undebatable.
A secret I learned while flying in the military……the key to your happiness isn’t hardware. A 787 (if you ever touch one) will get old boring and uninteresting real fast, just like flying anything else. The airplane I flew in the military is “sexier” flying than anything a civilian trained pilot will ever touch……after a few years….old boring and a job just like every other airplane.
The only thing unique HA has to offer Alaska is hardware and unprofitable seasonal pacific routes that likely won’t exist once ST gets a look at their financial reality. HA lost $140m in Q1.
HA has 65 airplanes, 4 types, 1100 pilots (WTF?), and a little route structure geared almost entirely around vacation travel (i.e. economically sensitive AF). They have a bottom of the barrel cargo contract with Amazon that has them playing in the same whipsaw sandbox as Mesa. 330’s that don’t go far enough, 717s with less than 5 years left on them, 321s with bum engines that Alaska likely doesn’t want, and are STILL HIRING PILOTS TODAY to cover contract cargo flying ON a B SCALE! Not hard to imagine our union forced to cough up concessions from our hard earned contract in an effort to keep those fine folks newly hired at HA from getting furloughed.
I would not consider myself ideologically aligned with the current administration….but GO LINA KHAN GO!!!!! Please spare us from ourselves. I was going to vote for RFK as a protest vote against the two bumbling turd wagons on the primary tickets but I might be changing my mind.
IF (I said IF) we are headed towards an economic slowdown this is the absolute last thing you want your employer to be embroiled in with faltering demand. Forced to unload an entire airline of unprofitable outdated assets and scrambling to figure out what to do with 1100 extra pilots. Buh Bye leverage good luck in the JCBA.
We should be getting lean, mean, profitable, and focused on smart deliberate organic growth where it makes sense and makes money. I know its not sexy to fly stateside in a 737 but who cares? If your pilot ego is still driving your life priorities at this point in your career you need to grow up.
I understand this is all out of our control. But I hope that as the costs/sacrifices required to push this disaster across the finish line inevitably mount that pilots would be hitting up their Reps daily. The union should be seriously questioning the wisdom of BMs ego project and making it known to management that the Alaska pilots are not on board. The Alaska pilot group has the most to lose in this transaction.
A secret I learned while flying in the military……the key to your happiness isn’t hardware. A 787 (if you ever touch one) will get old boring and uninteresting real fast, just like flying anything else. The airplane I flew in the military is “sexier” flying than anything a civilian trained pilot will ever touch……after a few years….old boring and a job just like every other airplane.
The only thing unique HA has to offer Alaska is hardware and unprofitable seasonal pacific routes that likely won’t exist once ST gets a look at their financial reality. HA lost $140m in Q1.
HA has 65 airplanes, 4 types, 1100 pilots (WTF?), and a little route structure geared almost entirely around vacation travel (i.e. economically sensitive AF). They have a bottom of the barrel cargo contract with Amazon that has them playing in the same whipsaw sandbox as Mesa. 330’s that don’t go far enough, 717s with less than 5 years left on them, 321s with bum engines that Alaska likely doesn’t want, and are STILL HIRING PILOTS TODAY to cover contract cargo flying ON a B SCALE! Not hard to imagine our union forced to cough up concessions from our hard earned contract in an effort to keep those fine folks newly hired at HA from getting furloughed.
I would not consider myself ideologically aligned with the current administration….but GO LINA KHAN GO!!!!! Please spare us from ourselves. I was going to vote for RFK as a protest vote against the two bumbling turd wagons on the primary tickets but I might be changing my mind.
IF (I said IF) we are headed towards an economic slowdown this is the absolute last thing you want your employer to be embroiled in with faltering demand. Forced to unload an entire airline of unprofitable outdated assets and scrambling to figure out what to do with 1100 extra pilots. Buh Bye leverage good luck in the JCBA.
We should be getting lean, mean, profitable, and focused on smart deliberate organic growth where it makes sense and makes money. I know its not sexy to fly stateside in a 737 but who cares? If your pilot ego is still driving your life priorities at this point in your career you need to grow up.
I understand this is all out of our control. But I hope that as the costs/sacrifices required to push this disaster across the finish line inevitably mount that pilots would be hitting up their Reps daily. The union should be seriously questioning the wisdom of BMs ego project and making it known to management that the Alaska pilots are not on board. The Alaska pilot group has the most to lose in this transaction.
Your post kinda came off as @#$&headish BUT I would be remiss not to agree with it in sentiment. Many feel this way. Acquiring another similar airline is exciting but I really hope ST and BT are on their A game. After all it's about profit and that's what our management strives for. Cause if not the machetes will come out and we all will be chopped down to profitability. We paid a huge amount for VX and had it paid off quick. With all that cash couldn't we just organically grow a international widebody presence. Guess these days it's easier to buy someone who already has the gates and widebody orders. I can only speculate thou........way above my 23 yr pay grade.
04-26-2024, 11:14 PM
#715
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,474
The current Hawaiian leadership has been a dumpster fire from the begining. That's the problem with bean counters running the show.
Previous CEO was sharp, though did not necessarily agree with everything he did. He did bring the airline into a more modern era.
It may be a good thing for the AS pilot group who can hold wide body flying once the fences go down. It is roughly a $90/HR rate more than norrowbody flying.
Previous CEO was sharp, though did not necessarily agree with everything he did. He did bring the airline into a more modern era.
It may be a good thing for the AS pilot group who can hold wide body flying once the fences go down. It is roughly a $90/HR rate more than norrowbody flying.
04-27-2024, 07:45 AM
#718
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,038
Your post kinda came off as @#$&headish BUT I would be remiss not to agree with it in sentiment. Many feel this way. Acquiring another similar airline is exciting but I really hope ST and BT are on their A game. After all it's about profit and that's what our management strives for. Cause if not the machetes will come out and we all will be chopped down to profitability. We paid a huge amount for VX and had it paid off quick. With all that cash couldn't we just organically grow a international widebody presence. Guess these days it's easier to buy someone who already has the gates and widebody orders. I can only speculate thou........way above my 23 yr pay grade.
Growing your own means starting small, maybe one NRT slot on Tues night. How long for that to become profitable? Never. Until you get more slots and gates.
Also much easier to acquire people who already know how to train, mx, and manage international ops.
And the biggy for AS: Branding. How long for the Eskimo brand to achieve profitable market penetration on NRT-HNL? Never.
Good analogy is buying a fixer-upper truck... vice building your own truck from scratch.
Frankly HA is kind of the perfect solution for BM and ST's ambitions, even with it's warts...
1. Branding? Check. And it's even compatible with the Eskimo.
2. Route structure in the Pacific? Check. Fits in with existing AS island flying? Checks.
3. Super Scary Europe Ops? None. Check.
4. Turnkey widebody operation? Check.
5. Affordable? Check.
The big wart sounds like Japan travel... I bet if you got ST drunk, he'd confide that they see this as an opportunity to buy low with the reasonable assumption that travel from Asia to HI will pick back up over the long-term.
While HAL management is also apparently a wart, the anglers can fix that pronto.
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