GreenPatures

. I think it would be treated the same as a fenced airplane, not sure if those pay an SLI tax, but I don't think so. Some of the specifics of this merger make it different, the HNL base being a big one (and the fact that every HNL pilot expected to be based in HNL, whether living there or the few percentage commuting there). It is a remote island chain that is expensive, high tax rate, and a very expensive and challenging and time consuming place to move from or to. I have done many mainland moves, but none are the same challenge as a move to a remote island. Also all of the commuting options are very long, like on the mainland if you were based in LAX and the closest option to move to was JFK and then had to commute across the country...some do it, but if that was the closest option it makes it a bit more challenging so none of the mainland-mainland based mergers have the same dynamics as this one in that regard.

PineappleXpres

Yeah but you see what I’m asking right? If fences in Hawaiian pilots a/c or base are protected (advantaged) for x years. Will it cost them in the long term across the SLI in the final master list. Like horse trading/negotiating wise. Trying to read how an arbitrator does in a fair and equitable SLI.

GreatBigSea

I just don't see the need for any fences apart from the WB flying. The expensive nature and taxes of HI create a high enough artifical fence you won't see a large influx of pilots moving to the Islands, nor will you see more than the hanful who already live there bidding HNL. We have a greater likely hood of seeing HA pilots who live on the mainland bidding into our bases, and I haven't heard many pilots at AS voicing a desire to fence those off.

Regardless, its in the yet to be named arbitrators hands and any award is still 3-4 years out. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

GreenPatures

. Yes, I don't know. As GreatBigSea said it will take awhile to sort everything out, so hopefully when they get to the negotiating they will explain the implications.

ReluctantEskimo

There is a remote possibility that fences don't come off the widebodies for AS pilots. See Northwest/Republic 1988. Those blue book guys were the most bitter pilots I've ever seen.

907ANC

Some light reading with history, to include the rest of the story, about the above:
http://www3.alpa.org/publications/Fl...Chapter17.html

PineappleXpres

That logic is sound, but people may want to upgrade in base. No fence could have ramifications. I agree that 3-4 years we’ll have more clarity on how safe HNL is in terms of size the base will be. Also, Consider you may get more for you money in Hawaii than you do in NorCal/SoCal or metro SEA.

Yeah that’s worth reminding everyone of. Unknowns years away are just a basic and reasonable part of life.

That doesn’t seem fair and there ought to be a growth number trigger. Though I wonder how they capture a potential of 55 A330 freighters, 20 787s, and 22 A330 pax. That’s a lot of widebody planes that HAL could have flown in aggregate on current, orderbook, and Amazon triggers.

Akamai

It’s 22 787’s (12 firm, 10 options), and 24 330’s, plus 10 330F’s. Not sure how an arbitrator will view the additional possible 45 330F’s, but one thing we do know is that it will be years before we find out.

Agua1967

It's a little to early to speculate. If either group gets a windfall it will get ugly. Hopefully the MEC's can figure something out. If not we'll have to trust in the ALPA merger policy. It seemed to work on the last merger. I don't think its going to be a winner takes all type of merger.

rickair7777

Unlikely. If that happened it would be for X number of WB's, based at HNL. There won't be lifetime fences for WB's that end up in SEA or other AS bases.

There also won't be fences for WB's which arrive after SLI, unless maybe it's a previously scheduled one-for-one replacement for HNL WB's removed from service.