Alaska buying Hawaiian airlines.
12-13-2023, 07:14 PM
#271
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Posts: 23
Going OEM is absolutely a waste of money, but it isn't the reason we're being bought, or why we're doing poorly financially. We're doing poorly financially because we were set up as an airline that brings people to Hawaii, and if those people don't want to come to Hawaii, we're going to do poorly. The Japanese being slow to return and the Maui fires (and subsequent poor communications) are so far beyond the few million dollars we are wasting on developing and training oem. I say this as someone who hates the OEM idea. I think it's the tail wagging the dog. Companies develop procedures to match their operational needs to the aircraft, OEM manufacturers create procedures to match a generic operation. It's stupid, but it isn't what's sinking is.
12-13-2023, 10:59 PM
#272
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 89
Meanwhile, HA is losing Millions because these managers want to be the only US carrier to operate the full Airbus Philosophy of OEM. Alaska will lift the rug and find all the wasteful spending on OEM and those managers responsible for OEM will be given walking papers. The Sooner these managers are stopped the sooner WE start making money. "WE" equals AS, and HA as ONE.
Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much!
Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much!
But what do I know, I've just worked here for half my adult life. Just do the godd**n walkarounds, fly your jet, drink a beer, and be happy. At the end of the day, does it really matter what the FCOM says your flows are, or who does the walkaround? Does it even matter what airplane you fly? It all boils down at the end of the day to getting the time off you want to live your life, and the paycheck to live it with. Lifestyle, trip length, avoiding types of flying you can't stand, and other major QOL issues sit just behind that. Everything else is fluff.
Last edited by WindWalker999; 12-13-2023 at 11:33 PM.
12-13-2023, 11:08 PM
#273
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 89
Normally I'd say the data is the data and you may be correct on that. However, I've seen in person, the 321. I've had many instances where I had to "recommend" to start down, slow down etc. Lack of FOQA isn't always indicative of what is actually occurring. HA operatates the 321 in the easiest operating environments. The only semi difficult airport we fly into is LAX. The rest is SMF, LGB, and the outter islands. It's basically mindless work on the fleet. Even our parking location in LAX is the easiest space on the airport.
I'd have no problem if we were talking 2001-2019 experience levels in the cockpit. But todays FO, with 2000hrs, barely any jet time, and ear buds in all day..... I don't want to babysit anymore. My kids are grown.
If the company came out and said " on and FO taxi leg, if they should happen to turn too fast off a snow covered rwy, it'll be on them. " That would be nice.
HA needs to realize, we have been a VFR airline for eternity. Anybody can make it look good when it's 10sm, clear and dry everyday. We'll see how it goes when we actually start doing things in real weather for once. Our management team has already shown when things get tough they fold like a deck of cards.
I'd have no problem if we were talking 2001-2019 experience levels in the cockpit. But todays FO, with 2000hrs, barely any jet time, and ear buds in all day..... I don't want to babysit anymore. My kids are grown.
If the company came out and said " on and FO taxi leg, if they should happen to turn too fast off a snow covered rwy, it'll be on them. " That would be nice.
HA needs to realize, we have been a VFR airline for eternity. Anybody can make it look good when it's 10sm, clear and dry everyday. We'll see how it goes when we actually start doing things in real weather for once. Our management team has already shown when things get tough they fold like a deck of cards.
And more importantly, those same FOs have "suggested" things to me when my own approaches were jacked up, that once or twice have kept me off of said FOQA highlight reels! So this is not an OEM issue at all, it is just CRM and having respect (both ways) for the various experience levels that exist now, and have always existed.
12-14-2023, 02:00 AM
#274
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
So what management position did you apply for and not get? I can tell you that everything you are saying regarding OEM has absolutely no relevance to Hawaiian's situation vis-a-vis the USD/JPY exchange rate and a horrifying natural disaster that laid waste to an entire town. Or a full-fleet engine recall. Or for that matter to the potentially very profitable Amazon flying, and the likely resolution of the Yen and Pratt issues sometime next year with or without a buyout / merger. I can guarantee Alaska is not buying something they think will LOSE money for them.
But what do I know, I've just worked here for half my adult life. Just do the godd**n walkarounds, fly your jet, drink a beer, and be happy. At the end of the day, does it really matter what the FCOM says your flows are, or who does the walkaround? Does it even matter what airplane you fly? It all boils down at the end of the day to getting the time off you want to live your life, and the paycheck to live it with. Lifestyle, trip length, avoiding types of flying you can't stand, and other major QOL issues sit just behind that. Everything else is fluff.
But what do I know, I've just worked here for half my adult life. Just do the godd**n walkarounds, fly your jet, drink a beer, and be happy. At the end of the day, does it really matter what the FCOM says your flows are, or who does the walkaround? Does it even matter what airplane you fly? It all boils down at the end of the day to getting the time off you want to live your life, and the paycheck to live it with. Lifestyle, trip length, avoiding types of flying you can't stand, and other major QOL issues sit just behind that. Everything else is fluff.
12-14-2023, 05:44 AM
#275
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2022
Posts: 458
AF is probably the model we're basing our OEM off of. (Being housemates with Airbus etc). When HA pilots in Koapaka say European carriers have a better record and do it better, they tend to forget American is the model for what aviation is around the world. And I'd have to look it up, but probably operate in worse weather and in far greater numbers of flights daily.
12-14-2023, 05:46 AM
#276
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2022
Posts: 458
Plus I did my 2 decades of walking around the airplane in the freezing winter. The 24 yr old can do it. I've earned my warm preflight.
12-14-2023, 05:54 AM
#277
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,044
I tend to agree that's CA prerogative. Your call.
12-14-2023, 06:13 AM
#278
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 464
I like going down to the ramp for walk arounds, it reminds me of my days as a line guy. It's also invigorating and gets the blood going. Like an ice bath.
12-14-2023, 07:15 AM
#279
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 188
Because it's my ticket on the line if said FO f^cks up. If anyone is going to f^ck up I'd rather it be me so I can blame myself. Not because it's hard or anything.
Plus I did my 2 decades of walking around the airplane in the freezing winter. The 24 yr old can do it. I've earned my warm preflight.
Plus I did my 2 decades of walking around the airplane in the freezing winter. The 24 yr old can do it. I've earned my warm preflight.
Not saying I like or agree with OEM, but it’s hilarious that THIS is the issue being debated.
Let’s work on getting an amazing JCBA!
12-14-2023, 09:04 AM
#280
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2023
Posts: 361
So what management position did you apply for and not get? I can tell you that everything you are saying regarding OEM has absolutely no relevance to Hawaiian's situation vis-a-vis the USD/JPY exchange rate and a horrifying natural disaster that laid waste to an entire town. Or a full-fleet engine recall. Or for that matter to the potentially very profitable Amazon flying, and the likely resolution of the Yen and Pratt issues sometime next year with or without a buyout / merger. I can guarantee Alaska is not buying something they think will LOSE money for them.
But what do I know, I've just worked here for half my adult life. Just do the godd**n walkarounds, fly your jet, drink a beer, and be happy. At the end of the day, does it really matter what the FCOM says your flows are, or who does the walkaround? Does it even matter what airplane you fly? It all boils down at the end of the day to getting the time off you want to live your life, and the paycheck to live it with. Lifestyle, trip length, avoiding types of flying you can't stand, and other major QOL issues sit just behind that. Everything else is fluff.
But what do I know, I've just worked here for half my adult life. Just do the godd**n walkarounds, fly your jet, drink a beer, and be happy. At the end of the day, does it really matter what the FCOM says your flows are, or who does the walkaround? Does it even matter what airplane you fly? It all boils down at the end of the day to getting the time off you want to live your life, and the paycheck to live it with. Lifestyle, trip length, avoiding types of flying you can't stand, and other major QOL issues sit just behind that. Everything else is fluff.
In Reality and Unity....
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