vaxedtothemax

Don't mind Akamai. Pretty sure his working in our "puzzled palace".

He's pretty much been wrong on everything for years. There isn't a pilot I've talked to that didn't know we were on our way to bankruptcy. Most more junior piots I fly with had a back-up app out and some had received interview invites, if this buy out didn't happen. Akamai has been a company cheerleader for years, as far as he is concerned HA has been right on track. It's only recently he's even acknowledged our CEO isn't very good at his job.

While every other airline printed money 2021- Boeing, HA hasn't even sniffed a quarter that didn't have 8 or 9 digit loses. Just check out CNBC for our forecast for 2025. It doesn't get much better.

Rumor from guys I have been flying with. When an audit of our operation was done, we have low level managers making near what Alaska's higher ups are at.

Yakattack

Farbeit from me to play the role of arbitrator, but I think straight date of hire is the best way to do this. Career expectations for a WB pilot are that they get paid more (and that they have the cockpit ergonomics befitting their high station in life, I suppose), not that they get an advancement in seniority over NB pilots within their own company just by virtue of being WB pilots. The "you have no career expectations because you fly a 737" notion is getting old quickly. My career expectation is that people junior to me on new airframe types stay junior to me.

And I like flying Southeast Alaska. Don't rip on it.

MinRest

The arbitrator does not have to adhere strictly to the ALPA merger policy and both houses will argue their case to an arbitrator with 100% certainty. There is no way SLI doesn't go to arbitration and if you think the financial stability of the company and its future cannot and won't be remotely considered, you are going to find yourself unpleasantly surprised I think. Who knows which way it will go but again, you can't fly widebodies if the company goes out of business and the future of HA was absolutely in question which is why AS made a move to buy it, and the DOJ didn't block it.

I can't believe I am saying this but I actually agree with OTZ on this one. The list we will see in 2+ years has already been decided +/-1%.

MinRest

Just out of curiosity, is widebody flying a career expectation if ALL of those routes lose money?

CATIII

Are you really an A220FO, I didn't know Alaska had A220's.. 🤷

CATIII

How you, me or anyone feels about this is irrelevant ... it will be arbitrated and the arbitrator will decide what is fair, and we'll all be stuck with it, and unhappy. Best to learn to get along now.

MinRest

I honestly have no idea where that "position" on my profile came from. I have never modified it.

rickair7777

You can change it in your User CP.

Yakattack

True enough. I've refrained a dozen times from posting things in a much more firey tone. That was the "diplomatic" version.

cesnacaptn

Financial stability is absolutely a consideration when determining the SLI.

The following are relevant experts from the AS/VX arbitration award:

Longevity:



The Board concludes that longevity should be the single largest consideration in driving the method for merging the lists. The Alaska group is more than double the size of the Virgin America group, and senior Alaska pilots have decades of hard earned sweat equity. That longevity which allowed Alaska pilots to achieve their current status, domicile, and other longevity related benefits must be given significant weight. As of the snapshot date, the most senior Alaska pilot had 37 years of longevity while the most senior Virgin America pilot had slightly more than 10 years. 64% of Alaska pilots had more than 10 years of longevity. Only 4% of Virgin America pilots had more than 10 years.



Career Expectations:



Career expectations for steady employment and upgrade opportunities are a critical factor in balancing the equities that drive a merged seniority list. The two primary components of a pilot's career expectations are job security and job opportunities, most importantly upgrades.



Both are largely determined by the strength, stability, financial health, track record, growth rate, and strategic success of the pilot's airline. Pilots will obviously have greater career expectations at a financially stable and steadily growing airline than they would at a startup or at an airline with a history of financial crises.



The Board finds that job security, the first component of career expectations, favors the Alaska pilots. Alaska Airlines has existed since 1935 and ALPA has represented its pilots since 1947. Alaska has successfully negotiated the minefield of airline deregulation that sent most, if not all, of its competitors to bankruptcy, liquidation, or merger. Alaska has a strong balance sheet and earnings record. The price of Alaska stock has risen sharply as a result of its financial success and its consistent profitability. Alaska's strategic planning resulted in a highly developed base of operations that has allowed it to fend off American, Delta and United, the three industry giants. Over the years, Alaska successfully added equipment, focus cities and flight frequencies to its network, all in a way that contributed to the strength of its operations and its financial health.



Virgin America was not a failing airline but neither, despite the public relations campaign surrounding Alaska's acquisition, was it an “equal” to Alaska. Virgin America was founded in 2007 and struggled to establish its identity and market share. It came to the market with a “buzz,” low labor costs, new equipment and a very appealing product, but financial success did not follow quickly. Virgin America lost money or was marginally profitable from its startup until 2015 when its margins finally grew to a respectable level.



When job security and upgrade opportunities are taken together, the career expectations for pilots at both airlines were good, but those of the Alaska pilots were better, more secure and more predictable. A standalone Virgin America might have continued as a viable and growing competitor, or it might have faltered, or it might have merged with or been acquired by another carrier that could have been less advantageous to Virgin America's pilots. Alaska was more likely to have continued its steady if slower growth.