Alaska buying Hawaiian airlines.
08-20-2024, 08:13 PM
#1405
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 694
If AS orders more 787's from this point on it's going to be pretty hard arguing there should be fences for those. Not to mention 10 year fences would allow post merger new hires into those aircraft over legacy guys. That's just not going to happen. We'll see how it shakes out.
2025 for MAX 7 SWA will get those for a long time
2026 for MAX 10
If AS mgmt gets rid of any airframes before a Boeing delivery it will be a disaster for both pilot groups.
08-20-2024, 08:32 PM
#1406
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: outside
Posts: 715
I think by close of business Thursday we are considered official owned and operated by Alaskan Airlines. If I rememeber it was 3 days after DOJ approval (or lack of being contested).
Hopefully the waste cutting is swift. Way too many people at our HQ making way too much money to do a poor job.
Curious, will Alaska still want to continue with PF/PM on the 330/321? Or did HA just waste millions (as usual) with something that isn't going to happen?
Hopefully the waste cutting is swift. Way too many people at our HQ making way too much money to do a poor job.
Curious, will Alaska still want to continue with PF/PM on the 330/321? Or did HA just waste millions (as usual) with something that isn't going to happen?
You mean OEM.
Hawaiian has been in a bubble for a looong time.
Last edited by Neosporin; 08-20-2024 at 08:43 PM.
08-20-2024, 08:32 PM
#1407
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 324
If AS orders more 787's from this point on it's going to be pretty hard arguing there should be fences for those. Not to mention 10 year fences would allow post merger new hires into those aircraft over legacy guys. That's just not going to happen. We'll see how it shakes out.
United's MCD was October 2010 but the SLI wasn't until September 2013.
08-20-2024, 08:45 PM
#1408
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 124
Its not going to be "relative seniority" because the fleets aren't "relatively the same". HA simply has categories AS doesn't have. WBCA and WBFO because of their A330s and B787s. WBCA is higher than NBCA and WBFO is higher than NBFO.
Also,right now only HA pilots can fly the 787 and A-330 until the SLI. So if AS wanted to move the planes to SEA, only HA pilot would be doing that flying. Its probably going to be a couple years to do a JCBA and an SLI.
There are 3 elements and literally nothing else. Longevity, Status and Category, Career Expectations (which means which types of planes you would have expected to fly, not how fast you would have been Captain or what bases). Republic and Northwest had a 30 year fence in place for Widebody planes. UAL CAL only 5 years, but both had WB planes.
Also any fences start at SLI and not when the merger. So if its 2 years to SLI and 10 year fences, its 12 years for an AS pilot to fly the WB as CA.
I honestly don't understand this merger. AS could have always bought 787s if they wanted. HA has 4 planes that AS doesn't fly. I guess we will see how this turns out.
Good luck to all of you.
Also,right now only HA pilots can fly the 787 and A-330 until the SLI. So if AS wanted to move the planes to SEA, only HA pilot would be doing that flying. Its probably going to be a couple years to do a JCBA and an SLI.
There are 3 elements and literally nothing else. Longevity, Status and Category, Career Expectations (which means which types of planes you would have expected to fly, not how fast you would have been Captain or what bases). Republic and Northwest had a 30 year fence in place for Widebody planes. UAL CAL only 5 years, but both had WB planes.
Also any fences start at SLI and not when the merger. So if its 2 years to SLI and 10 year fences, its 12 years for an AS pilot to fly the WB as CA.
I honestly don't understand this merger. AS could have always bought 787s if they wanted. HA has 4 planes that AS doesn't fly. I guess we will see how this turns out.
Good luck to all of you.
08-20-2024, 09:23 PM
#1409
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 98
Here are some insights from the last merger from the point of view of a VX guy:
The process is incrediincredibly slow. Today, with DOJ approval, we passed the first major milestone. Next is JCBA, then SLI, then unified ops, and at the very end, we finally get to cross bid. By the time this is over, you won't care to read any updates. It'll all seem boring AF.
The AS VX merger was approved in early 2016. It took three years (july 2019) before pilots could bid the other company's equipment and seven years for Alaska to completely swallow Virgin (got rid of the last Airbus in fall of 2023).
Working that math forward from today we can predict that the earliest pilots from this merger could switch into each others bases and bid new equipment is fall of 2027 and the fleet rationalization won't be fully complete until the fall of 2031. If you had a baby this summer, she'll be in second grade by the time the dust from this merger settles.
We might see JCBA by mid‐2025 and SLi by the end of next year (not a prediction, just a guess to make a point). The JCBA will likely be rolled in over time, maybe years, and the SLI won't matter for a few years because we won't be cross bidding till 2027.
For most of us, we won't feel the effects of this merger until the next president is at the end of her term. Between now and then there will likely be massive world events, economic changes, etc. The point being: this takes a long time. The stuff wweworry about on these forums won't matter as much as you think. People will drop off of the seniority list, plans will change, management will change, the cities we serve will go through changes.
When the VX AS merger happened, I was at 27٪ on the VX seniority list. SLI dropped me to 31٪ on the combined list. Now, eight years downrange, I'm around 16٪. It was all slow‐moving change, nothing that rapidly jolted our family or income. Other than suffering through five years of line bidding (which got fixed in May) it's all been an upward trajectory.
The process is incrediincredibly slow. Today, with DOJ approval, we passed the first major milestone. Next is JCBA, then SLI, then unified ops, and at the very end, we finally get to cross bid. By the time this is over, you won't care to read any updates. It'll all seem boring AF.
The AS VX merger was approved in early 2016. It took three years (july 2019) before pilots could bid the other company's equipment and seven years for Alaska to completely swallow Virgin (got rid of the last Airbus in fall of 2023).
Working that math forward from today we can predict that the earliest pilots from this merger could switch into each others bases and bid new equipment is fall of 2027 and the fleet rationalization won't be fully complete until the fall of 2031. If you had a baby this summer, she'll be in second grade by the time the dust from this merger settles.
We might see JCBA by mid‐2025 and SLi by the end of next year (not a prediction, just a guess to make a point). The JCBA will likely be rolled in over time, maybe years, and the SLI won't matter for a few years because we won't be cross bidding till 2027.
For most of us, we won't feel the effects of this merger until the next president is at the end of her term. Between now and then there will likely be massive world events, economic changes, etc. The point being: this takes a long time. The stuff wweworry about on these forums won't matter as much as you think. People will drop off of the seniority list, plans will change, management will change, the cities we serve will go through changes.
When the VX AS merger happened, I was at 27٪ on the VX seniority list. SLI dropped me to 31٪ on the combined list. Now, eight years downrange, I'm around 16٪. It was all slow‐moving change, nothing that rapidly jolted our family or income. Other than suffering through five years of line bidding (which got fixed in May) it's all been an upward trajectory.
Last edited by LonesomeSky; 08-20-2024 at 10:01 PM.
08-20-2024, 09:37 PM
#1410
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,872
Hawaiian pilots dodged a bullet. Hawaiian was an extremely poorly run company on the verge of bankruptcy, that Alaska overpaid for.
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