Alaska buying Hawaiian airlines.
08-14-2024, 08:48 PM
#1201
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 1,160
no bearing on DOJ, but Alaska could have asked the DOJ to ask for an extension for this reason. A decision before could have altered the vote. Alaska would rather the FAs continue to work under the old contract, while they negotiate the JCBA. This is more beneficial to the company instead of negotiating from the basis of a new better contact.
If the DOJ even shifts weight in the chair it’s sitting in, it seems to have stakeholders shrieking in speculation.
08-15-2024, 07:13 AM
#1203
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,031
no bearing on DOJ, but Alaska could have asked the DOJ to ask for an extension for this reason. A decision before could have altered the vote. Alaska would rather the FAs continue to work under the old contract, while they negotiate the JCBA. This is more beneficial to the company instead of negotiating from the basis of a new better contact.
08-15-2024, 08:03 AM
#1204
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 72
My guess is the DOJ knows they have a management team experiencing massive organizational capture. AS now has resources, narratives, and most importantly egos (Bens is massive) completely wrapped up in getting this thing across the finish line. The volume of concessions may very well be significant and detrimental to our profitability. Gov employees that are extremely ideologically driven tend to think any level of collateral damage done in service of the ideology is morally justified. This management team has leaned way to far forward with this merger before regulatory approval and now feels like a rabbit hole egos simply can't back out of.
Their is this narrative that circulates this pilot group that this management team is somehow special and executes in a genuinely genius fashion. Its like a warm blanket that makes us all feel good about staying here and passing on that Delta interview. I don't buy it (anymore). AS has a disciplined management culture that runs a decent operation...but their success is largely circumstantial, stumbling onto a cornered funnel market that has proven to be a tremendous area of economic growth and is relatively recession resistant (PNW Tech, etc.).
Entertaining (depressing) experience: Flew with a CA that was in the low 1000's and 58 yrs old. Just couldn't wait to fly the 787. I asked "oh so you would be willing to downgrade to FO to fly the 787?" "Oh no I wouldn't be willing to downgrade to FO"......I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble. The heavy metal delusion has reached full psychological penetration of this pilot group.
Their is this narrative that circulates this pilot group that this management team is somehow special and executes in a genuinely genius fashion. Its like a warm blanket that makes us all feel good about staying here and passing on that Delta interview. I don't buy it (anymore). AS has a disciplined management culture that runs a decent operation...but their success is largely circumstantial, stumbling onto a cornered funnel market that has proven to be a tremendous area of economic growth and is relatively recession resistant (PNW Tech, etc.).
Entertaining (depressing) experience: Flew with a CA that was in the low 1000's and 58 yrs old. Just couldn't wait to fly the 787. I asked "oh so you would be willing to downgrade to FO to fly the 787?" "Oh no I wouldn't be willing to downgrade to FO"......I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble. The heavy metal delusion has reached full psychological penetration of this pilot group.
08-15-2024, 08:11 AM
#1205
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,031
My guess is the DOJ knows they have a management team experiencing massive organizational capture. AS now has resources, narratives, and most importantly egos (Bens is massive) completely wrapped up in getting this thing across the finish line. The volume of concessions may very well be significant and detrimental to our profitability. Gov employees that are extremely ideologically driven tend to think any level of collateral damage done in service of the ideology is morally justified. This management team has leaned way to far forward with this merger before regulatory approval and now feels like a rabbit hole egos simply can't back out of.
Their is this narrative that circulates this pilot group that this management team is somehow special and executes in a genuinely genius fashion. Its like a warm blanket that makes us all feel good about staying here and passing on that Delta interview. I don't buy it (anymore). AS has a disciplined management culture that runs a decent operation...but their success is largely circumstantial, stumbling onto a cornered funnel market that has proven to be a tremendous area of economic growth and is relatively recession resistant (PNW Tech, etc.).
Entertaining (depressing) experience: Flew with a CA that was in the low 1000's and 58 yrs old. Just couldn't wait to fly the 787. I asked "oh so you would be willing to downgrade to FO to fly the 787?" "Oh no I wouldn't be willing to downgrade to FO"......I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble. The heavy metal delusion has reached full psychological penetration of this pilot group.
Their is this narrative that circulates this pilot group that this management team is somehow special and executes in a genuinely genius fashion. Its like a warm blanket that makes us all feel good about staying here and passing on that Delta interview. I don't buy it (anymore). AS has a disciplined management culture that runs a decent operation...but their success is largely circumstantial, stumbling onto a cornered funnel market that has proven to be a tremendous area of economic growth and is relatively recession resistant (PNW Tech, etc.).
Entertaining (depressing) experience: Flew with a CA that was in the low 1000's and 58 yrs old. Just couldn't wait to fly the 787. I asked "oh so you would be willing to downgrade to FO to fly the 787?" "Oh no I wouldn't be willing to downgrade to FO"......I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble. The heavy metal delusion has reached full psychological penetration of this pilot group.
Also while a merger is the fastest path to turnkey international/WB ops, it's not the only path. I do believe that they will not cave to DOJ to the point of making the whole proposition a hail mary. Both are young, vested in AS culture, and probably want to be here for a while and enjoy some success... not go out fighting for their jobs in BK court.
But yeah, .gov doesn't care in the slightest, they're just extremist activists who want to put point ups on the board in the socialist struggle against big business.
08-15-2024, 10:20 AM
#1206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 1,160
My gut feel was also along these lines, but actually giving BM and ST just a little more credit for how well they have planned this.
Also while a merger is the fastest path to turnkey international/WB ops, it's not the only path. I do believe that they will not cave to DOJ to the point of making the whole proposition a hail mary. Both are young, vested in AS culture, and probably want to be here for a while and enjoy some success... not go out fighting for their jobs in BK court.
But yeah, .gov doesn't care in the slightest, they're just extremist activists who want to put point ups on the board in the socialist struggle against big business.
Also while a merger is the fastest path to turnkey international/WB ops, it's not the only path. I do believe that they will not cave to DOJ to the point of making the whole proposition a hail mary. Both are young, vested in AS culture, and probably want to be here for a while and enjoy some success... not go out fighting for their jobs in BK court.
But yeah, .gov doesn't care in the slightest, they're just extremist activists who want to put point ups on the board in the socialist struggle against big business.
08-15-2024, 10:57 AM
#1207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 681
My guess is the DOJ knows they have a management team experiencing massive organizational capture. AS now has resources, narratives, and most importantly egos (Bens is massive) completely wrapped up in getting this thing across the finish line. The volume of concessions may very well be significant and detrimental to our profitability. Gov employees that are extremely ideologically driven tend to think any level of collateral damage done in service of the ideology is morally justified. This management team has leaned way to far forward with this merger before regulatory approval and now feels like a rabbit hole egos simply can't back out of.
Their is this narrative that circulates this pilot group that this management team is somehow special and executes in a genuinely genius fashion. Its like a warm blanket that makes us all feel good about staying here and passing on that Delta interview. I don't buy it (anymore). AS has a disciplined management culture that runs a decent operation...but their success is largely circumstantial, stumbling onto a cornered funnel market that has proven to be a tremendous area of economic growth and is relatively recession resistant (PNW Tech, etc.).
Entertaining (depressing) experience: Flew with a CA that was in the low 1000's and 58 yrs old. Just couldn't wait to fly the 787. I asked "oh so you would be willing to downgrade to FO to fly the 787?" "Oh no I wouldn't be willing to downgrade to FO"......I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble. The heavy metal delusion has reached full psychological penetration of this pilot group.
Their is this narrative that circulates this pilot group that this management team is somehow special and executes in a genuinely genius fashion. Its like a warm blanket that makes us all feel good about staying here and passing on that Delta interview. I don't buy it (anymore). AS has a disciplined management culture that runs a decent operation...but their success is largely circumstantial, stumbling onto a cornered funnel market that has proven to be a tremendous area of economic growth and is relatively recession resistant (PNW Tech, etc.).
Entertaining (depressing) experience: Flew with a CA that was in the low 1000's and 58 yrs old. Just couldn't wait to fly the 787. I asked "oh so you would be willing to downgrade to FO to fly the 787?" "Oh no I wouldn't be willing to downgrade to FO"......I didn't have the heart to burst his bubble. The heavy metal delusion has reached full psychological penetration of this pilot group.
Please encourge all your Captains to fly the brand new super cool shiny 787s.
Feel free to throw in stories about how amazing international flying is.
08-15-2024, 11:32 AM
#1208
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 72
I hope this is a joke. Yeah.....don't get caught up in metrics, data, finances. Airlines are only giant complex logistics operations. If your consumers were loyal, broad, or appealing enough your route structure would make money. Instead it lost $71m in the 2nd quarter as opposed to Alaska Airlines which made $220m in the 2nd quarter. Not sure if anyone told you but thats one of the quarters your supposed to make money. Hawaiian airlines is literally nothing but 787 orders and gate space/landing slots to this management team. Coming to grips with that now will make processing the next 7 years much easier.
08-15-2024, 12:09 PM
#1209
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 681
I hope this is a joke. Yeah.....don't get caught up in metrics, data, finances. Airlines are only giant complex logistics operations. If your consumers were loyal, broad, or appealing enough your route structure would make money. Instead it lost $71m in the 2nd quarter as opposed to Alaska Airlines which made $220m in the 2nd quarter. Not sure if anyone told you but thats one of the quarters your supposed to make money. Hawaiian airlines is literally nothing but 787 orders and gate space/landing slots to this management team. Coming to grips with that now will make processing the next 7 years much easier.
08-15-2024, 01:03 PM
#1210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: outside
Posts: 715
I agree with AKCattlecarrier, 787s and gates and routes, that's it. Who loves us....? Locals loved Aloha. Toursist love HA. HA has price gouged locals for years. SWA gave them a decent price to fly interisland to visit family. A manager in Hilo told me that two Pualani Platinums migrated to SWA because we were basically unreliable. The 717 is a tired horse and needs to be set out to pasture.
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